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Old 02-17-2018, 06:29 PM #51
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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When it comes to Jones and the Klit brothers, I guess I am a bit like iron dan hammy with Toney. One reason I do not like Jones or Mayweather is because I believe they enjoyed toying with the viewers they had promised action fights to. Their promises were always empty. In a mythical matchup, whichever ATG you put them up against, expect a boring fight, if you could actually make such a fight. They are like poker players that continually talk a loose game trying to get everyone else to loosen up and gamble while they remain tight asse s.

One thing that holds Jones back in ATG rankings is his chin. Yes, apparently no one knows for sure if it was actually terrible when he was younger, because he hardly ever got hit. But people do easily recognize that it was terrible when he got older, and that does not help the AT reputation, and creates a permanent suspicion that he always had a glass chin.

If someone could produce video evidence that somewhere along the line Roy actually survived a helluva wallop from someone, it would go a ways towards easing this suspicion and partially restoring his AT aura. However, I cannot remember him ever taking much of a punch until ordinary punches started knocking him out.

Without the security of a good chin, fans should not rank him too high AT, in my opinion. I have believed for years that chin is the number one quality needed for a boxer to be great, because sooner or later it will always be tested, usually sooner. Jones may be the rare case where it was later.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:43 PM #52
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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I can hear the possible objections already. If the chin of Jones was not tested until his prime was well over, then we can rank him high without ever seeing his chin tested.

Now I object. Other ATGs can be expected to find and test Roy's chin a lot sooner than the shoe clerks he was fighting did. The man now has to go up against the likes of Foster, Tunney and Charles. They will find his chin, just as he will find theirs. Will he still be hard to hit? Of course, but they are ATGs, not fish vendors, so will find it and test it. Tunney was not exactly slow.
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Old 02-17-2018, 09:31 PM #53
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Actually my only response would be if chin is the most important quality, then I guess you would consider either George Chuvalo or Oliver McCall to be the best of all time or best heavyweight?
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:14 AM #54
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Originally Posted by TonyGe View Post
I think Roys boxing IQ was just fine. Jim Lampley once said that Roy was one of the smartest boxers in and out of the ring he had ever met. I think it was more a matter of temperament and stubborness as to why he didn't change his style. Roy did things his way for better or for worse and to hell with the consequences. If anyone thinks he didn't understand the nuances of boxing given his amature background they're kidding themselves.
If his boxing IQ was fine then he would have been able to adjust and still be good as he got older.

But unlike Mayweather or Hopkins he never did. Roy completely fell off once he was out of his athletic prime.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:56 AM #55
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If his boxing IQ was fine then he would have been able to adjust and still be good as he got older.

But unlike Mayweather or Hopkins he never did. Roy completely fell off once he was out of his athletic prime.
Like I said I'm my original post. He didn't want to change.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:33 PM #56
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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Actually my only response would be if chin is the most important quality, then I guess you would consider either George Chuvalo or Oliver McCall to be the best of all time or best heavyweight?
Why, of course, Tony. It is obvious, isn't it, that Chuvalo is the #1 heavyweight of all time and McCall is 2nd. How did you guess?
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:34 PM #57
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Behind those two, Uzcudun was awfully durable, making him the #3 heavyweight of all time.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:03 AM #58
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Why, of course, Tony. It is obvious, isn't it, that Chuvalo is the #1 heavyweight of all time and McCall is 2nd. How did you guess?
Elementary and simple deductive reasoning, Watson.
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Old 02-19-2018, 02:59 PM #59
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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I am going to say that Angus MacKaskill would beat them all, KOing all. But the only way Angus would try to hurt someone is if they were hurting his parents or friends. If that is what we have to do to get Angus to fight, then so be it! I hate to torture the boy's parents, but here goes, Tony. Watch out, he is a one punch KO artist, so do not get in his way.
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:59 PM #60
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His lack of boxing fundamentals destroy his legacy for me.

Relying on your natural talents isnt enough for a very long career. And his resume is very overrated
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