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Old 04-10-2012, 12:30 PM #41
BKM-2010 BKM-2010 is offline
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Originally Posted by Nodogoshi View Post
It's almost 12:30am, and I feel like calling family right now and don't feel like responding too much, but what have you seen to make you suggest that JDS is an "expert in catching people cold"? The Werdum fight? Because while Werdum was certainly caught cold, I fail to see how JDS is an expert at catching people. If anything, that fight helps augment my point about people being more vulnerable in the beginning couple of minutes. I for one doubt Werdum would be caught again like that, for one thing.
He caught Yvel, Werdum, Cain and others during exchanges. He has better accuracy and speed with his punches than anyone else in the HW division right now. Hunt has shown reckless and wild striking all the time, and Junior could just as well KO Hunt like Manhoef did.


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Hunt was mostly worried about takedowns in that fight. Everyone was saying Rothwell was going to lay and pray Hunt. Hunt was able to stop the takedowns and take Rothwell out of his element. The fight actually played out entirely as I predicted it would (not that anyone wants to dig through a forum, but my prediction is at teamtakeover.forum-express.com . I received props for my spot-on pick, which was that Hunt would be able to stop Rothwell's sub-par wrestling and brawl his way to victory).
Like I said, You have zero grounds to criticise JDS not knocking out Nelson while Hunt had that performance against Rothwell. Hell, a lot of the same stuff you said about that fight was said about JDS/Nelson.

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To be sure, Hunt hasn't done enough to earn a title shot. But on the basis of circumstances, he isn't the worst pick out there. And of course, styles make fights. Hunt could beat JDS. I wouldn't say so if he wasn't currently training for a fight, but because he is on the card and will presumably show up in shape based on having a full training camp, he has a good shot. If he was a last minute replacement who hadn't been in training, that would be one thing. But Hunt at his best, has the potential to win this fight.
Sure. I like "Hunt has potential to win this fight" a lot better than "if JDS stands with Hunt he will be KTFO, no questions asked!" because that is just retarded fanboyism if I've ever seen it. I believe JDS has the edge everywhere, and even if he gets in trouble standing, he'll take the fight to the ground judging by his comments before the Overeem fight, and if McCorkle could sub Hunt in 1 minute I believe a Nogueira Brown Belt can sub him too.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:58 PM #42
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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If JDS stand with Hunto he will be KTFO. It's got nothing to do with how their skill sets match up with others and everything to do with how they match up with each other. JDS vs Nelson is a ridiculous fight to compare. Nelson's got **** for form. His guard is nonsense, his hooks are swings(no 90). His feet are comparable. his shape and chin are also comparable, but c'mon his punch structure vs Mark's is so different they aren't even attempting to perform the same philosophies. It's even more ridiculous to compare a grappler to JDS. I don't see how McCorkle has anything to do with JDS. Junior's higher level of TDD doesn't help him against Mark's right hand. What does Junior got that Hunt hasn't beaten? Are you suggesting Junior can take down worth dick? He won't even try. He's like Chuck with that ****.

So now that I've been quite clear that who beat who doesn't mean dick, but who's displayed what. Junior's no Melvin, not even close. Man's well known for direct power punches. Junior's power punches come in the form of 90 degree power shots. Hooks, uppercuts, and overhands. His straights are not thrown to drop, and Mel's are. There's a huge big difference in giving Manhoef an opening and JDS. Junior is much more comparable to Mark himself. They both tend to shoot for heavy 90 degree angle punches. They're not much for bastardizing their power-line for speed, or to protect themselves. Hunt vs JDS is easily a question of who can take more, hit harder, and more often. This whole "let me talk about a bunch of ****ers who've nothing to do with skill sets employed" nonsense doesn't prove anything other than the assumption that you, sir, follow triangle theory.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:34 PM #43
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I assume that was directed at me. I'm not saying this to be a dick but you should really check your reading comprehension, Marciano, because you misunderstood about two third of my post.

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If JDS stand with Hunto he will be KTFO.
Oh this again. Junior hasn't even been hurt or as much taken a step back in a daze. He has shown an iron chin but a lot people act like he'll drop like a China chin. Hunt on the other hand has been brutally knocked out cold before. And please don't tell me you're one of those Americans who assumes immediately that Melvin Manhoef is a kickboxing God because I can tell right away when a guy doesn't really know much about him at all.

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JDS vs Nelson is a ridiculous fight to compare. Nelson's got **** for form. His guard is nonsense, his hooks are swings(no 90). His feet are comparable. his shape and chin are also comparable, but c'mon his punch structure vs Mark's is so different they aren't even attempting to perform the same philosophies. It's even more ridiculous to compare a grappler to JDS. I don't see how McCorkle has anything to do with JDS. Junior's higher level of TDD doesn't help him against Mark's right hand.
Nobody was comparing anybody to Nelson or McCorkle. You wasted a lot of text there.

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What does Junior got that Hunt hasn't beaten? Are you suggesting Junior can take down worth dick? He won't even try. He's like Chuck with that ****.
Hunt hasn't beaten a great striker in his prime since Cro Cop in Pride. And that was in his prime. He is now approaching his 40s, is much slower/sloppier and the last time he faced a great primed striker he was knocked out quickly.

That's the problem with a lot of his fans. They look at his accomplishments and see his K-1 record and that he beat Cro Cop, and they just assume that he's still the same guy.

Oh, and JDS took down Nelson and high level wrestler Carwin. He'd dump Hunt on his head if necessary.


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Junior's no Melvin, not even close. Man's well known for direct power punches. Junior's power punches come in the form of 90 degree power shots. Hooks, uppercuts, and overhands. His straights are not thrown to drop, and Mel's are. There's a huge big difference in giving Manhoef an opening and JDS. Junior is much more comparable to Mark himself. They both tend to shoot for heavy 90 degree angle punches. They're not much for bastardizing their power-line for speed, or to protect themselves.
Sure Junior's no Melvin, he's actually a heavyweight, not a MW in MMA. Bottom line, Hunt had no business getting knocked out in 18 seconds. That fight single handidly destroyed his aura as a striker, or atleast at a certain level. He's as vulnerable as any HW to a well timed powerful shot.

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Hunt vs JDS is easily a question of who can take more, hit harder, and more often.
I didn't know you consider JDS another Tank Abbott or something. You clearly haven't seen all of his fights. namely against Carwin he showed a diverse skillset standing. He can jab and fight backwards as well.

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This whole "let me talk about a bunch of ****ers who've nothing to do with skill sets employed" nonsense doesn't prove anything other than the assumption that you, sir, follow triangle theory.
No I'm discussing fights like every other mma fan does. But I guess the only thing that counts is what 'means dick' to you or not.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:40 PM #44
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So what exactly was Overeem going to do that Hunt can't?
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:54 PM #45
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What do you mean, like if they fought JDS?
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:07 PM #46
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What do you mean, like if they fought JDS?
Yeah pretty much. Both former K-1 GP Champs, both have KO Power, both have **** for cardio, Reem's got a better ground game and Hunt's got a better chin.

I don't understand where all this Hunt hate is coming from. Let him fight. If he wins, Cinderella story, guy comes off a 6 fight losing streak into a company that doesn't even want him, wins some fights, lucks into a title fight, becomes the champ. Feels good man. If he loses, he was supposed to lose, and we now have a more clear ranking of the HW class because you didn't **** with the rest of the card....
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:41 PM #47
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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Well, I reckon it's going both ways bud. That was a bit directed at both of y'all. I mean, I agree with Nodogoshi, but not for the same reasons. Basically all I was trying to say is y'all are arguing moot points imo. What happened with Manhoef is only relevant if you reckon JDS is going to fight like Manhoef. Same for Nelson-JDS. I wasn't pointing fingers at who compared what. I was just saying this general back and forth about who's done what to who doesn't prove anything. Does Mark being dropped by Melvin make him an easy KO? That's basing a career of eating bombs off of one 18sec fight. It's a weak ass argument. It goes both ways imo. I don't see anyone on Juniors record to bring up and it be relevant to Hunt. Nor do I see the vice-versa. Pros or cons. I just don't see any valid points coming from their records. I was just hoping to shape the dialog into a discussion of how we reckon these two skill sets collide. Basically your 5th paragraph(?) was dead perfect for what I was looking for.

You misunderstood my point, but it was real point making about tools in JDS' set. I didn't mean to say Melvin's the better striker at all. Just that they are different, and the idea behind the strikes are different. I didn't say Junior was limited to bent arm power shots, just that that is his bread and butter. His realm. His easiest fall back and oldest friend. I holistically reckon JDS>Manhoef. The last sentence was absolute gold. He is, so is Junior. It's been proven a long time ago that it only take 80 psi on the knuckle for the skull to crack, and Jeck Dempsey's book on championship fighting covers the 175ish limit. Meaning, Jack's claims not mine though I do subscribe, any after 175 you simply have more weight to work with and don't have to be as perfect, but 175 throwing perfectly can stop a man of any size. Kayo Kid in the opener I believe. With that said and MW who knows how to KO as to potential to KO any HW. There just isn't anyway to strengthen the skull, and 175 is plenty enough weight to cause a KO....and MW isn't 175 so you can even **** up a bit. Power line be a bit off.

The opener was just me poking the bear bud. Just a bit of a wind-up.....I mean you left it hanging out there ya know?

Also, I'm meshing a lot of points. I don't have a lot of time to write right now, but too much to sit and stare so yer getting the ****ed up in between. I kind of went all over the place and crunched your bits together to make it easier on myself.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:43 PM #48
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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Yeah pretty much. Both former K-1 GP Champs, both have KO Power, both have **** for cardio, Reem's got a better ground game and Hunt's got a better chin.

I don't understand where all this Hunt hate is coming from. Let him fight. If he wins, Cinderella story, guy comes off a 6 fight losing streak into a company that doesn't even want him, wins some fights, lucks into a title fight, becomes the champ. Feels good man. If he loses, he was supposed to lose, and we now have a more clear ranking of the HW class because you didn't **** with the rest of the card....
Lots of great points.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:00 PM #49
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Originally Posted by BEDROOM BULLY View Post
Mir was meant to take down a top and very big wrestler in Darwin?

Mir also ktfo nog and tapped him after being dazed
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Fact is not doesn't need great takedowns to take down mark ****in hunt.. Who once on his back is like a fish out of water

Why are you trying to twist what I said also ? I never said jds/silva were sinilar I just said Why not give silva strikers every fight so he can eat them up and put on great displays..

UFC is meant to be a legit sport that's why...

Hopkins/Dawson is bound to be a snooze fest but it's te top two guys at lhw and they earned the fight
like nodogoshi said...
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Sure it is. That's way a 1-1 Brock Lesnar gets a title shot
the difference with silva and JDS situation is.. theres no strikers close enough to trouble Silva in the MW division, JDS is amongst the big boppas who besides crocop hasnt fought anyone with the credentials of Reem or Hunt.

Just factor in Jnrs style of stand up, its a good match up with Mark Hunt. Does Hunto deserve it.. i don't think so, but we seen worse guys get shots haven't we
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:20 AM #50
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Unless they want to give JDS a break/tune up then fight the Mir/Cain winner, then I understand.

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