Comments Thread For: Could The DAZN-Canelo Deal Lead To The Demise of PPV?

[yammy25]

Was Groves/Eubank not PPV? Or even Groves/Smith? Thought one of those two were, but even if you want to say only those four, you have Usyk/Bellew, Wilder/Fury, Chisora/Whyte and Frampton/Warrington coming up. So you will be at 8 PPVs if neither of Groves fights were on PPV. That still ends up getting you close to $200 bucks for PPVs in 2018, more than stateside.

And it would depend on the type of purses Spence/Crawford will be wanting. I mean they made Garcia/Thurman where both made over $3 million each. The problem here is Spence gets $3 million to fight O'campo, and Crawford gets $3.6 million to fight Benavidez. That fight by end of 2019 can be built to do decent numbers. If Crawford keeps drawing these big ratings and Spence gets another marquee win over someone like Garcia or Porter, his star would only rise. And imagine if he gets Garcia or Porter on CBS or FOX? Will it do 500k as Bob says? Highly doubt it, but potentially 275-300k? Sure.

Groves Eubank and Groves smith were WBSS through ITV box office... the numbers were bad for both in all honesty but i absolutely hear you in terms of PPV volume. They are bad.. but its networks trying to get in on what Sky have created with matchroom and alot of UK fans dont fall for it.

The UK public, or the vast majority of the UK buying public, will not by ITV box office fights..and certainly not for 16.95 given their undercards in the WBSS.

Usyk Bellew will sell no doubt, Wilder Fury will sell okay ish but i doubt it does big numbers with it being so close to xmas and being on at 4am , and the first BT sport PPV which still has a much smaller customer base than Sky.Hopefully it does ok for the good of the sport i guess...

Whyte chisora is losing alot of lustre due to hearn and the two fighters taking the royal piss about getting it sorted. Its fast becoming a joke right now. as far as that card goes, and it falls on the same night as frampton / warrington which will die a horrible and painful death going up against a whyte fight on sky considering his first PPV did over 400k and the UK casual fans lap up the drama between him and chisora.

I still think the money isnt there to guarantee a profit from a crawford / spence PPV but we can see.
Crawfords allways done respectable ratings but his PPV flopped bigtime, and i just dont think spence appeals enough to casual fanbase in the US to command decent buys.

Who knows.. i may be wrong. The proof will be in the pudding.

As far as the UK goes though about our PPV's... the takeaway is this. We might have multilpe PPV's being offered, but the vast majority of us wont buy them. The ITV box office charges for the WBSS were just a joke...and as a result, i reckon their buyrates were too.

UK fans buy 3 fighters now.. Bellew..for some weird reason. Joshua, and now to a lesser extent whyte.

[Motorcity Cobra]

probably offsetting costs to minimize losses on DAZN's part, but i mean i agree with you here.. youd need 3.6 million subs just to poay canelos guarantee per fight not counting any other costs.

They likely have a coffer of money they expect to lose through paying such a high guarantee.

I dont think that theyd lose out on international TV rights though.. i imagine that whilst the fight will be shown in DAZN's territories GBP would be free to sell to non DAZN territories such as the UK. Sky would probably bid for UK rights if those fights included matchroom fighters.

If they included matchroom fighters it still wouldnt be part of the SKY/DAZN agreement as that only extends to the 16 matchroom US shows... so i think Sky would still have to bid if they wanted to show it here.

The other markets like Germany, Japan and Canada where DAZN is available. Those are big markets to lose rights fees.

Well they'd get their money from DAZN, who seem willing to pay more than the networks. Now, how does DAZN make up that money?

The answer is customer retention.

First, it's important to remember that networks take 45% of PPV revenue, which is an insane profit margin. DAZN doesn't need to hit those margins to stay afloat.

DAZN is banking on a certain number of people paying $10/month for the whole year. $120 for the whole year as opposed to the $140 that would be spent on PPVs.

Still, DAZN is taking risks, and they will be in the red until they get their subscriber base up.

You gotta come with more realistic numbers. So how much does DAZN need to take to stay afloat and how did you arrive at that number? Also how many people do you think are going to keep the service after Canelo fights twice a year? What does it have to offer to keep casuals coming back the other 10 months? I got Showtime for boxing but I watch their documentaries and show called The Chi and I watched that Sasha Cohen show this year.

[yammy25]

Its all about retaining the subscribers. Say Canelo brings in 1.5million unique subscribers, they'll be trying to retain the highest % of that number. If they manage to keep a third, that's $5 million a month extra.

Its why theyre making the first one free, card will probably be loaded aswell. They want as many as those viewers to stick around as possible.

yeah withoubt a doubt, subscription retention is key.

If you have 1 mil a month, thats 120 mil at the end of the year. That's double your two canelo purses a year plus whatever...

They'll still need to have a very very god subscriber number plus retention stats in order to make it work though. i cant agree with hearn saying canelo will bring in 1 million new subs alone in time for fielding.. no way

[Motorcity Cobra]

I've only streamed a couple of fights on Showtimes platform...

And the quality was very poor and unless they get it better I say:

NO MAS...!

I stream all the fights on Showtime. I'm not sure what you're talking about I've never had a problem and I don't recall anyone here complaining about it. Are you using your data to stream or your in home wifi?

[yammy25]

The other markets like Germany, Japan and Canada where DAZN is available. Those are big markets to lose rights fees.

Couldnt agree more, but 36.5 million is his guarantee , who's to say he doesn't receive extra as a result of views per territory as a way to offset lost distribution revenue.

Either way... DAZN best hope for a **** ton of subs and a great retention rate in order to finance everything to turn this move profitable down the road.

[Eff Pandas]

People are going to pay for a fight they want to watch no matter what format it comes from.

So Danz if they want to take over need to put in the fights that people want

THIS.

I'm not really seeing anyone say the obvious. PPV isn't gone even if streaming is where all the big fights happen cuz streaming IS simply a hybrid PPV model if you really look at whats going on.

And PPV was what ruled the day for most of my time as a boxing fan.

And before that closed circuit is where big fights happened.

And before that you had to go & pay to watch at theaters after the fact cuz only the mfers at the venue watched the fight live.

Boxing has virtually always been a Pay to Watch sport since its earliest years til the present. Nothing has really changed. You're still paying to view fights.

[killakali]

I cancelled my original SHO plan after the last Mikey fight lol I was planning to start it again for Garcia v. Porter, then I got offered their 4.99 plan lol signed back up.

HBO was a complete rip off (well until GOT comes back lol). ESPN+ has become much more appealing now that Arum has made those international deals (you called that; I remember). DAZN has a solid boxing lineup now too. I think the best content they have is the WBSS. So less than $25/month will get me all I need now.

Things have rounded out well.

However, people are crazy to think PPV is going away lol

The ironic part is that the company that was going to make #freeboxingforall is now going to be the only company doing pay per views and they have several on the horizon while GBP and Top Rank go to cable tv and/or streaming.

Between the cost of SHO and all these pay per views, watching PBC will cost more for fans than all the other promoters combined.

[Motorcity Cobra]

Couldnt agree more, but 36.5 million is his guarantee , who's to say he doesn't receive extra as a result of views per territory as a way to offset lost distribution revenue.

Either way... DAZN best hope for a **** ton of subs and a great retention rate in order to finance everything to turn this move profitable down the road.

The more I think about this the more I'm skeptical it'll work. I remember people doubting if Showtime could turn a profit with Floyd's deal. Well this deal is for more money at a far lesser cost, $10 sub compared to $60-$100 PPV.

For every Canelo fight they're in the hole $36 mil. DAZN is available in 5 countries and the average cost per sub is $18 dollars. The'll need 2 mill subs just to cover his purse alone. And if he gets a bonus per million sub that's even less money for them.

[killakali]

I don't consider Mayweather PPVs as PBC. He's his own entity as I stated. No one was saying Mayweather/Pacquiao was PBC.

We shall see on Spence/Garcia being PPV. Maybe, but doubt it especially if Broner/Pac goes in Jan on PPV.

And FOX from their deal will get two PPV shows a year I believe. The Broner/Pac card will likely be FOX PPV.

between the wilder-fury card and the end of 2019 PBC will have put on 6 ppvs at least and will be the most expensive promotional company for fans to watch between all the ppvs and SHO.

You can say Mayweather is his own entity but that card will be filled with PBC fighters so its all connected.

[TexDeuce]

DAZN is kicking ass. Only been live for a month and have the two biggest stars in the world with no PPV costs. The Chicago event was great. Great app, production, and stream quality.

Lots of boxing content plus Bellator MMA.

If you are a boxing fan you have to be one broke @$$ busta to not have $9 a month to watch these fights.