When did Tyson's prime end?

[OctoberRed]

To me, the absolute height for Mike was the Spinks fight.

[Schmerzen]

To me, the absolute height for Mike was the Spinks fight.

that wasn't even a fight, tyson totally killed spinks. i think tyson could have fought 2 spinks at the same time and would have still won that day.

[ShoulderRoll]

In a technical sense his abilities slipped fight by fight after Rooney was sacked (after Spinks in 1988).

I agree with this.

Once the last links to Cus D'Amato's training regimen were severed Tyson started to deteriorate technically and he never recaptured that form again in his career.

He just showed flashes here and there in what was otherwise a slow but irreversible decline.

[billeau2]

I hope this does not sound stupid...because SugarJ made some excellent remarks that I agree with and with that said a couple of things come to mind:

1) As brilliant as the Spinks demolition was, it was hardly a showcase because he didn't really do anything.

2) As against the odds as it was... WOULD ANY version of Tyson have been effective against the spirits that took over Buster Douglas that night? Douglas was perfect that night and he was long, rangy and incredible enough with his jab, one has to wonder what Mike could have done. Douglas simply was bigger, not letting Mike inside, and just that good. I really wonder if Mike's failures were a factor, especially considering that Mike almost slipped by with his one punch... If two men are flawless and one is bigger, well a good big man beats a good small man all factors being equal.

3) Heres what we know: a) Mike went through good fighters like butter, and showcased some of his skills in the process, to the point that we could see how good he was. b) THE Mike that fought Holyfield was past it... Holyfield could push Mike off and put him on his heels. mike was not moving his head, etc etc.

So my question is...

"Did Mike ever actually have a prime?" Like Ali we may have missed the best of Mike Tyson. We saw what he could do, and we saw when he stopped doing it, we never actually saw him put everything together against a fellow great, performing at the top of his game. I think his prime might have been reserved for if he had kept going in the right trajectory, had good management with the likes of Cus, and not been f ucked by King, gotten more experience, and fought Boweand Lewis...this would have been his prime.

[Sugarj]

I hope this does not sound stupid...because SugarJ made some excellent remarks that I agree with and with that said a couple of things come to mind:

1) As brilliant as the Spinks demolition was, it was hardly a showcase because he didn't really do anything.

2) As against the odds as it was... WOULD ANY version of Tyson have been effective against the spirits that took over Buster Douglas that night? Douglas was perfect that night and he was long, rangy and incredible enough with his jab, one has to wonder what Mike could have done. Douglas simply was bigger, not letting Mike inside, and just that good. I really wonder if Mike's failures were a factor, especially considering that Mike almost slipped by with his one punch... If two men are flawless and one is bigger, well a good big man beats a good small man all factors being equal.

3) Heres what we know: a) Mike went through good fighters like butter, and showcased some of his skills in the process, to the point that we could see how good he was. b) THE Mike that fought Holyfield was past it... Holyfield could push Mike off and put him on his heels. mike was not moving his head, etc etc.

So my question is...

"Did Mike ever actually have a prime?" Like Ali we may have missed the best of Mike Tyson. We saw what he could do, and we saw when he stopped doing it, we never actually saw him put everything together against a fellow great, performing at the top of his game. I think his prime might have been reserved for if he had kept going in the right trajectory, had good management with the likes of Cus, and not been f ucked by King, gotten more experience, and fought Boweand Lewis...this would have been his prime.

Agreed, we probably didn't see Tyson's true prime. With Rooney still in tow and without the Givens/Don King/Washington sideshow, he could have improved further and we may have seen him peak at 28 or 29. But that said, these shorter, reach inhibited pressure types typically peak earlier and have shorter careers.

The 90s would have been tough for him though. Even at his best.....the brilliant punch resistance (not to mention abilities) of Foreman, Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer and McCall would've meant that he'd have had several punishing distance/late rounds fights, win lose or draw.

Ironically the jail sentence may have prolonged his fighting career. Without it, it's hard to imagine him still fighting in 2005!

[billeau2]

Agreed, we probably didn't see Tyson's true prime. With Rooney still in tow and without the Givens/Don King/Washington sideshow, he could have improved further and we may have seen him peak at 28 or 29. But that said, these shorter, reach inhibited pressure types typically peak earlier and have shorter careers.

The 90s would have been tough for him though. Even at his best.....the brilliant punch resistance (not to mention abilities) of Foreman, Bowe, Holyfield, Mercer and McCall would've meant that he'd have had several punishing distance/late rounds fights, win lose or draw.

Ironically the jail sentence may have prolonged his fighting career. Without it, it's hard to imagine him still fighting in 2005!

Yes, he would be tested for sure. Heavyweights peak later and benefit from experience, but the type of style used does make a difference.

Actually if Tyson had been in the mix and Bowe had stayed the course we would have had a nice talent pool!

[BKM-]

Most will say right after he fired Rooney. Technical decline or not, before prison Tyson had the physical peak and there was no quit in his mentality yet.

Right after prison of course he declined physically and no longer had the heart he showed in the Douglas, Bruno and Ruddock fights.

So yeah his prime ended after he went to prison for the rape.

Hoo hoo, Robin. I was gonna say this too haha. This or the moment he hit the canvas in Round 10 against Buster Douglas.

Lol Opie & Anthony fan I take it? I love Cumia's impression of Howard Stern.

[messenger]

It ended around the departure of Rooney, and the addition of Givens and Don King. Sometime before Douglas.

[Dempsey-Louis]

I am not sure what constitutes 'a prime' but Tyson was finished after Holyfield I -- The Douglas fight could be passed off as an exception but the Holyfield beatings discredited him. He cease to be seen as a monster and henceforth everyone entered the ring believing they could beat him.

[OctoberRed]

that wasn't even a fight, tyson totally killed spinks. i think tyson could have fought 2 spinks at the same time and would have still won that day.

Exactly, that fight had some huge build at the time. And when it went down it made Tyson look indestructible.