Jamal Khashoggi, saudi journalist, murdered in Turkey by Saudis.

[-MEGA-]

The sun kick out out free energy, and the wind does another decent job, tidal power will always happen as long as the moon is still there, and geothermal energy also.

You also got the hoover damn and Niagara falls produce a lot of energy

Not to mention nuclear, and the advent of nuclear fusion.

Energy conservation should also be looked into, why be wasteful.

Why be over reliant on other countries for your energy, put's you in a weak position.

All of which takes oil to operate. Just saying

[D4thincarnation]

All of which takes oil to operate. Just saying

How so?

And are you against the reliance on foreign countries for energy?

[-MEGA-]

How so?

And are you against the reliance on foreign countries for energy?

Sorry, that may have came off a bit harsh or argumentative.

Everything you mentioned needs oil to operate. From what I understand even solar panels do (however I’ve only heard that, never researched it)

Yes. I am against dependence upon anything from anybody, really. We should be self sufficient. With that said, we got plenty of oil to fall back on. We just choose not to tap into it as it would be wiser to save our resources while depleting everybody else’s. Wouldn’t you think?

[D4thincarnation]

Sorry, that may have came off a bit harsh or argumentative.

Everything you mentioned needs oil to operate. From what I understand even solar panels do (however I’ve only heard that, never researched it)

Yes. I am against dependence upon anything from anybody, really. We should be self sufficient. With that said, we got plenty of oil to fall back on. We just choose not to tap into it as it would be wiser to save our resources while depleting everybody else’s. Wouldn’t you think?

I'll look into it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Ok a quick look into it seems that the argument is that these products need plastics, and you get plastics from oil.

Not sure if all these products need plastics from oil and alternatives cannot be found. But even so it only a tiny fraction, what can be sourced from American oil.

[-MEGA-]

I'll look into it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Ok a quick look into it seems that the argument is that these products need plastics, and you get plastics from oil.

Not sure if all these products need plastics from oil and alternatives cannot be found. But even so it only a tiny fraction, what can be sourced from American oil.

Again, I never researched it so you’re probably more knowing than I am at this point.

However, I’m thinking that when the convo came up they were talking about how when they break or something it’s a mess to clean up. Idk, could have been like gen 1 crap. I’m sure they’re more efficent now.

[-MEGA-]

I'll look into it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Ok a quick look into it seems that the argument is that these products need plastics, and you get plastics from oil.

Not sure if all these products need plastics from oil and alternatives cannot be found. But even so it only a tiny fraction, what can be sourced from American oil.

Found this real quick. Imma look some more as well.

———————


If it takes about two years for a PV panel to repay its energy, we can calculate the amount in pure energy terms.

First we have to make a few assumptions. Let’s say this is a 300W module, which is pretty standard nowadays. Larger modules are available but they get physically difficult to handle. Smaller modules are also available, but as you might imagine the overhead in materials is lower on the larger module. So we’ll go with that.

If you have roughly 700 days of sun in two years (which is optimistic, but it makes the math easy), 5 hours a day of good sunlight at the equivalent at which the panel is rated (this is seasonal, but it’s what we use in South Africa and it makes the math easy), then this 300W panel makes 700 * 5 * 300 = 1050kwh in that two years.

A barrel of oil has 5,729,000 BTU according to the second search engine result I just googled, which is 1680kwh (of raw energy). So you could say, with a lot of hand waving and generalisation, that it takes about two-thirds of a barrel of oil to make a PV panel.

Doing the math another way, there is 30MJ of energy in a liter of crude, which is 8.3kwh. So it takes 126 liters of crude (ignoring all inefficiencies) to make a PV panel. That’s 33 US gallons (out of the 42 that is in a barrel), so as you can see, with a lot of hand waving, we get to about the same number.

Of course the inefficiency in extracting that energy means it will be more, but as another answer already points out: We hardly use oil for this, we probably use coal for this. You could probably look up the energy content for a kilogram of coal and do the math yourself.
1

[siablo14]

We have plenty of oil we could tap into. We just choose to use up everybody else’s first.

Natural gas in excess too.

[-MEGA-]

Natural gas in excess too.

Yessir!! Although, I’m not so sure about fracking yet. Seems like it could be dangerous.

[-MEGA-]

I'll look into it. Doesn't make sense to me.

Ok a quick look into it seems that the argument is that these products need plastics, and you get plastics from oil.

Not sure if all these products need plastics from oil and alternatives cannot be found. But even so it only a tiny fraction, what can be sourced from American oil.

Here’s another bit of an article. Looks like some companies have been trying to devolop some sort of crystalline method.

——————-
As the PV business continues to grow, new backsheet constructions are continually being introduced. But the products we use in our efforts to be more sustainable have a bigger footprint than we think. Currently, there are at least ten commercial manufacturers of traditional PV backsheets, with traditional products in the development stage. Traditional backsheets, the protective covering on solar cells, are produced mainly from polyester and Tedlar films. Polyester is made from petroleum and Tedlar is solvent-cast using DMAC, a highly toxic industrial solvent. Both of these products defeat the purpose of clean, green energy, and as the demand for solar energy increases, so does this issue

https://www.altenergymag.com/content.php?post_type=1412

[D4thincarnation]

Found this real quick. Imma look some more as well.

———————


If it takes about two years for a PV panel to repay its energy, we can calculate the amount in pure energy terms.

First we have to make a few assumptions. Let’s say this is a 300W module, which is pretty standard nowadays. Larger modules are available but they get physically difficult to handle. Smaller modules are also available, but as you might imagine the overhead in materials is lower on the larger module. So we’ll go with that.

If you have roughly 700 days of sun in two years (which is optimistic, but it makes the math easy), 5 hours a day of good sunlight at the equivalent at which the panel is rated (this is seasonal, but it’s what we use in South Africa and it makes the math easy), then this 300W panel makes 700 * 5 * 300 = 1050kwh in that two years.

A barrel of oil has 5,729,000 BTU according to the second search engine result I just googled, which is 1680kwh (of raw energy). So you could say, with a lot of hand waving and generalisation, that it takes about two-thirds of a barrel of oil to make a PV panel.

Doing the math another way, there is 30MJ of energy in a liter of crude, which is 8.3kwh. So it takes 126 liters of crude (ignoring all inefficiencies) to make a PV panel. That’s 33 US gallons (out of the 42 that is in a barrel), so as you can see, with a lot of hand waving, we get to about the same number.

Of course the inefficiency in extracting that energy means it will be more, but as another answer already points out: We hardly use oil for this, we probably use coal for this. You could probably look up the energy content for a kilogram of coal and do the math yourself.
1

The technology is improving all the time, and as long and after two years, you have free energy till the product expires even with the technology you were referring to.

https://news.energysage.com/solar-pa...-solar-energy/

Also crude is not used for energy, it has to be refined and processed, plus the transportation and the pipelines built. How long till the oil pay back the initial cost of that infrastructure?

I friend of mine has solar panels and he can sell the excess energy back to the grid, for cash.

Everyone can buy solar panels, we all can't have an oil well in our garden.

It would be personally beneficial for us to lose our reliance on energy companies for out energy too.