Remembering the 3 fights during Larry Holmes' reign which he may not have won.

[danthepoetman]

The Norton-Holmes fight was badly judged. It all went to the last round to decide of the winner, if memory serves, which I find was a bit absurd. I think Holmes had built a sufficient lead up to that point to win the fight whatever the outcome of the 12th. In my opinion, this fight was Holmes’ probably by 3 points, in the end.
What was troubling about the fight was how much action it had, but how unevenly distributed it was during the rounds: some stretches of 45 sec to a minute were incredibly intense, and then the action would slow down a little yet still be intense. And the climax of the fight was amazing.

And what about the off comment by Howard Cossel? He seemed so taken by the action he could hardly cope! We all had the feeling that a new era was beginning, a post Ali era. And we were right.

Mind you, I find that Holmes was much closer from loosing against Mike Weaver, before finding the fortitude to turn things around, and also against Ernie Shavers in the rematch, when he was decked and totally out on his feet in that 7th round…

[BRITISH LlON]

Also, if Holmes beats Spinks, do you guys think he retires after that or fights one more time to try and break Marciano's 49-0 heavyweight record? I think he tries to break the record, since that was mentioned by him a lot in interviews back then. Holmes tried to claim he already broke it because some of Marciano's fights weren't against legit pros, what was that about? Anyone know anything about these claims? I take it they're not true, since I haven't heard anything else about this.

Holmes said some of Marciano's fights were actually exhibition fights, but later they were added to his pro record as wins.

Holmes-Norton was perceived to be a close fight, but i've read from even the most boxing experts who watch it said that Larry was ahead 8-2 after 10 rounds, there's no way at all the fight be 8-7 in the end, at worst Holmes is winning 9-6.

Why dont you watch the fight yourself and score it? I had it even after 14 rounds, and I scored the last round a draw, so I had the whole fight a draw. the fight is on this channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/katis999/videos

The Norton-Holmes fight was badly judged. It all went to the last round to decide of the winner, if memory serves, which I find was a bit absurd. I think Holmes had built a sufficient lead up to that point to win the fight whatever the outcome of the 12th. In my opinion, this fight was Holmes’ probably by 3 points, in the end.
What was troubling about the fight was how much action it had, but how unevenly distributed it was during the rounds: some stretches of 45 sec to a minute were incredibly intense, and then the action would slow down a little yet still be intense. And the climax of the fight was amazing.

And what about the off comment by Howard Cossel? He seemed so taken by the action he could hardly cope! We all had the feeling that a new era was beginning, a post Ali era. And we were right.

Mind you, I find that Holmes was much closer from loosing against Mike Weaver, before finding the fortitude to turn things around, and also against Ernie Shavers in the rematch, when he was decked and totally out on his feet in that 7th round…

Holmes vs Norton was a 15 round fight, not a 12 round fight, and no way did Holmes clearly win it. I gave Holmes a lot of the early rounds even though the commentators said those rounds are "even", but I felt Holmes dominated them with is jab. But still Norton won quite some rounds later, and at the end I had it a draw.

[BRITISH LlON]

I had Holmes winning all of those fights soundly. Not by runaways, but soundly.

The first Spinks fight is the only pre-retirement fight that I think Holmes lost. And he was definitely past his best at that point.

I usually try to respect pple opinions, but this sentence of yours makes me believe you didnt watch the fights. All these 3 fights were razor close and A LOT of boxing fans say at least 2 of them were robberies, meaning Holmes got a gift decision. I personally scored 2 of them a draw and the Holmes-Williams fight I scored for Holmes by 1 point. But I can see how pple say Holmes lost the Norton fight or the Witherspoon fight

[danthepoetman]

Holmes vs Norton was a 15 round fight, not a 12 round fight, and no way did Holmes clearly win it. I gave Holmes a lot of the early rounds even though the commentators said those rounds are "even", but I felt Holmes dominated them with is jab. But still Norton won quite some rounds later, and at the end I had it a draw.

Yes yes, you're absolutly right, of course it was a 15th rounder. But still, my point is that Holmes was in my mind a couple of points ahead and the final round in itself couldn't make a difference. But yes, the fight was close and could have gone differently. I think that the judges had it pretty much like you, just about a draw that far. But i personnaly felt that in many of the Norton rounds, he was essentially wining the last minute or so, as Holmes was taking the first two minutes. But every round was close indeed.
Yet, i just can't see that one as a bad decision. Even as a draw to that point, Holmes did win the last round and deserved the win. Fior me, he should have had about a 3 point lead...

Oh! by the way, Holmes also repeated that Marciano couldn't have carried his jock strap, which between you and i, was utterly ridiculous... (I'm refering again here to post #12, what you answered Anthony).