Originally posted by billeau2
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Is Larry Holmes the most underrated heavyweight of all time?
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Originally posted by BigGeorge View PostWhat would you say? According to some guy on the BoxRec forums, he apparently surpassed Ali in many respects by 1974. Of course, just a rumor, but it's something to think about.
We have seen both aspects of Holmes come to the surface, here is what I am looking at presently with Holmes:
1) We have to separate him from Ali. Ali was a marvel and did things his own way, more like Jack Johnson, Roy Jones... guys that wrote their own rules on mechanics in the ring. Ali's jab functioned as his KO punch, etc. Holmes was a technical fighter who depended on technical skills, timing, etc.
2) So who can we compare Holmes to? I would say Tunney. Both men had similar understanding and technical brilliance, both men came at a change of an era. For Tunney it was the new punching oriented paradigm of fighting with gloves, from the bare knuckle days...Tunney looked up to Corbett who trained in both eras as a fighter, though Corbett allegedly did not fight bare knuckles.
With Holmes, he came into an era when the skill level went down and physically bigger men and bigger cruiser weights came into the division to try their hand.
Holmes like Tunney was not an obvious watershed precursor: One has to study both men, whom they fought, their methods, and who worked with them to see that Holmes was really more OF the Ali, FRazier Foreman era than the Witherspoon, Spinks, Holyfield and Tyson era. Ditto for Gene who was brought along right on the cutting edge between back foot, distance, planned traps and the minimalist step and punching that would define the Dempsey era up to and beyond Louis.
So... Thats where I am at: to me a comparison of Tunney to Holmes will eventually tell us a lot about Holmes and where he belongs. I am doing this by talking on these forums but as said, I have not made my mind up yet. You inspired me to start a thread about this topic and hope this helps.
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These Ali vs Holmes comparisons, Holmes was probably neck in neck with Ali after 1974 - but Ali had those intangibles, he was just a smarter fighter. Even in the parkinsons fight Ali showed some brilliance but they seem to only replay the final beating. People are under the impression that Ali got wiped out in 2 rounds, which he did not - he landed some sneaky well placed shots for the first half of the fight. Pretty good for a man that was not only shot to pieces but suffering from an illness.
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Originally posted by bak ta ehli View Posttyson had just too much energy when he was young. if shavers can hurt holmes i'm sure tyson would too, but unlike shavers he would finish the job. at least that's what i think
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My top all time HWs:
1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Johnson
4. Foreman
5. Liston
6. Holmes
7. Lewis
8. Tyson
9. Frazier
10. Dempsey
I don't take the exact rankings too seriously. I see three groups with Ali and Louis being a cut above the rest:
1-2
3-7 (roughly interchangeable)
8-10 (roughly interchangeable, though I think peak Tyson circa '87-'88 would have beaten a number of guys in this list in direct competition.)Last edited by Joe Beamish; 01-05-2018, 12:57 AM.
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holmes could easily be within the top 10 all time he was the klitchko of the early 80s he had no competition easily dominated during his era.
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