Andre Ward really is a wasted talent.

[New England]

He should be well established as #1 pound for pound by now. He should have had about 40 fights. If he retires now he has an outstanding resume, but he needs to rematch Sergey Kovalev. Looking at his record, he had the potential to challenge Joe Calzaghe's supremacy as the greatest Super Middleweight of all-time. However inactivity has made that impossible now. The Super Middleweight division remains in limbo.

Ward should rematch Kovalev and then go after Adonis Stevenson. He could retire on those two wins and be remembered as the best of his generation. Just a shame that I think he could have got a few more wins if he'd been more active. An undefeated Lucian Bute was the first miss. Then not taking the Chad Dawson fight at Light Heavyweight. Then not fighting Bernard Hopkins, that would have been a great legacy fight.

bute did not get by carl froch, short memory.

[New England]

I feel he could have been more. With a few more signature wins and activity he could have surpassed Floyd and Manny. There was a time when people expected that to be the case. Now he seems to be on his way out of boxing.

dude you are nuts if you think he's a more talented fighter than floyd mayweather or manny pacquiao, two of the most talented fighters of ever. could have surpassed them? based on what? do you really think he brought more to boxing in terms of talent than either of those two?


ward's got good skills, he's not the boxer that floyd was, or the ass whooper that manny was. he needs to roughuouse, spoil, take shots to come out on top sometimes even against b level competititon.

he's really not that close to the talents of those two, the best of the era. he allows the bikas, barreras of the world to stay relatively in the fight compared to manny and floyd. manny knocked that level of opponent into next week and shortened his career. floyd had him literally not trying to win late in the fight. that's not only because of their skills, but their talents. floyd's reflexes are the best i've seen. believe me, if ward could box liek that from the outside and win cleanly he would. instead he ends up inside and getting marked up. if ward could punch like manny he would. but he can't. so he won't be knocking guys out or breaking their orbital bones in his 9000th weight class.

[W1LL]

bute did not get by carl froch, short memory.

I know this, but at the time, Andre Ward had just beaten Carl Froch, there were talks of a Ward vs. Lucian Bute fight taking place. I am not the one with the short memory. Have a look back on Google to around fall 2011, spring 2012. The sequence of events was:

November 2011, Bute decisions Glen Johnson
December 2011, Ward schools Froch
May 2012, Froch rapes Bute
September 2012, Ward rapes Dawson

Just saying, timing is the key. If Ward had taken Bute on it would have unified the IBF, WBA and WBC, as well as the Lineal and RING magazine. Instead Carl Froch took Bute's scalp.

Also, the Chad Dawson fight could have then happened at 175, giving Ward the Lineal titles in two division by the end of 2012.

In reality that never happened, Ward instead defended his title against a weight drained Dawson at 168, then fought once in the next 3 years.

[daggum]

bute did not get by carl froch, short memory.

so ward gets credit for froch beating bute? not how it works. would have looked a lot better if he beat both but he refused the fight making him look very bad.

[New England]

so ward gets credit for froch beating bute? not how it works. would have looked a lot better if he beat both but he refused the fight making him look very bad.

did i say that?


or are you making a scarecrow to protect your little mudhut?


what i said was that bute didn't get by carl froch. how bad can not fighting the guy make you look?

that fight wouldn't even get sanctioned on TV after froch beat bute, who was clearly overinflated because of his matchmaking and people falling in love with his power against bums. the guy shoudl have a knockout loss to liberado andrade, FFS, one of the slowest fighters i have ever seen make it to TV.

[W1LL]

dude you are nuts if you think he's a more talented fighter than floyd mayweather or manny pacquiao, two of the most talented fighters of ever. could have surpassed them? based on what? do you really think he brought more to boxing in terms of talent than either of those two?


ward's got good skills, he's not the boxer that floyd was, or the ass whooper that manny was. he needs to roughuouse, spoil, take shots to come out on top sometimes even against b level competititon.

he's really not that close to the talents of those two, the best of the era. he allows the bikas, barreras of the world to stay relatively in the fight compared to manny and floyd. manny knocked that level of opponent into next week and shortened his career. floyd had him literally not trying to win late in the fight. that's not only because of their skills, but their talents. floyd's reflexes are the best i've seen. believe me, if ward could box liek that from the outside and win cleanly he would. instead he ends up inside and getting marked up. if ward could punch like manny he would. but he can't. so he won't be knocking guys out or breaking their orbital bones in his 9000th weight class.

Talent is one thing, but I was talking about legacy. On paper wins over Sergey Kovalev, Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler stand above the majority of resumes from the last 10-15 years. My point was, if Ward could add the rematch with Kovalev and maybe a win over Adonis Stevenson to those names, he'd be putting himself in that bracket. The main thing that lets Ward down is the inactivity around 2013-2015.

Catchweight fights and weight drained opponents seriously diminish the legacies of Floyd and Manny.

[gmc_rfc_06]

Wasted talent is an exaggeration. A wasted talent doesn't have the list of accomplishments that Andre Ward does.

An under-used talent, sure.

[New England]

I know this, but at the time, Andre Ward had just beaten Carl Froch, there were talks of a Ward vs. Lucian Bute fight taking place. I am not the one with the short memory. Have a look back on Google to around fall 2011, spring 2012. The sequence of events was:

November 2011, Bute decisions Glen Johnson
December 2011, Ward schools Froch
May 2012, Froch rapes Bute
September 2012, Ward rapes Dawson

Just saying, timing is the key. If Ward had taken Bute on it would have unified the IBF, WBA and WBC, as well as the Lineal and RING magazine. Instead Carl Froch took Bute's scalp.

Also, the Chad Dawson fight could have then happened at 175, giving Ward the Lineal titles in two division by the end of 2012.

In reality that never happened, Ward instead defended his title against a weight drained Dawson at 168, then fought once in the next 3 years.

so you overinflated the guy and want to act like it's a big deal that ward didn't fight him?

if he beat froch [or was a good fighter to begin with, which was clearly proven not to be the case and that he was just a hard puncher,] adn ward didn't fight him you'd have a leg to stand on. but you don't.


now, if you want to get on ward for fighting dawson at 168, that's fine. note that dawson asked for that fight at 168, ahd claimed in interviews [i have spoken with his manager and dawson himself on the phone several times, dont care if you don't believe that,] that they would campaign from 168 to HW. if that fight was a half lb over 168 ward wouldn't be able to fight for his titles. and fighters generally don't go down in weight after they move up, so he'd have likely kissed 168 goodbye at a time when his body was still very much that of a 168 lber whose career would be shortened at 175.


there are plenty of reasons to get on andre ward. being an ******* is #1. it's what caused him such long layoffs during his prime. he feels entitled to more than he is owed. you're missing the plot if you want to get on his case for not fighting the guy carl froch beat up. really. slow as piss carl froch beat that guy up to the point that he was no longer a viable TV fight for ward

[daggum]

did i say that?


or are you making a scarecrow to protect your little mudhut?


what i said was that bute didn't get by carl froch. how bad can not fighting the guy make you look?

that fight wouldn't even get sanctioned on TV after froch beat bute, who was clearly overinflated because of his matchmaking and people falling in love with his power against bums. the guy shoudl have a knockout loss to liberado andrade, FFS, one of the slowest fighters i have ever seen make it to TV.

you were implying that he didnt have to fight the number 1 guy because he went on to lose. it was the the best fight in the division and a caree high payday. no excuses not to take it. just like floyd and marg. oh marg eventually lost so good ducking! not even worth it!

[daggum]

so you overinflated the guy and want to act like it's a big deal that ward didn't fight him?

if he beat froch [or was a good fighter to begin with, which was clearly proven not to be the case and that he was just a hard puncher,] adn ward didn't fight him you'd have a leg to stand on. but you don't.


now, if you want to get on ward for fighting dawson at 168, that's fine. note that dawson asked for that fight at 168, ahd claimed in interviews [i have spoken with his manager and dawson himself on the phone several times, dont care if you don't believe that,] that they would campaign from 168 to HW. if that fight was a half lb over 168 ward wouldn't be able to fight for his titles. and fighters generally don't go down in weight after they move up, so he'd have likely kissed 168 goodbye at a time when his body was still very much that of a 168 lber whose career would be shortened at 175.


there are plenty of reasons to get on andre ward. being an ******* is #1. it's what caused him such long layoffs during his prime. he feels entitled to more than he is owed. you're missing the plot if you want to get on his case for not fighting the guy carl froch beat up. really. slow as piss carl froch beat that guy up to the point that he was no longer a viable TV fight for ward

anytime you avoid the number 1 guy its a big deal. if the number one guy turns out to be overrated so be it. easy money as they say. ward loves money so i guess he didnt think it was so easy. dmitri sartison got the call....wtf