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Old 05-14-2015, 06:21 AM #31
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Originally Posted by RawDawgHasSpokn View Post
Give Hagler another crack at him.
That was at middleweight.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:04 PM #32
The Old LefHook The Old LefHook is offline
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Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
I am going to have to reread Ray Leonards Biography as I do recall him claiming injury in the Camacho loss or just being over the hill. You bring up some great points in your post but some posters claim leonard was weakened coming down to jmw after being at middle and higher for the Norris fight.
Leonard might have been weakened from making weight. But in any form he could get caught in an exchange with Terry, who had a bigger punch and a weaker chin. Norris was fast enough to pull this off. Leonard hit hard enough to easily put the alabaster-chinned Norris on queer street with the first good combination. Terry was capable of that magic connect, though, and once in a while he might find it against Leonard.
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Old 05-14-2015, 06:24 PM #33
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Leonard might have been weakened from making weight. But in any form he could get caught in an exchange with Terry, who had a bigger punch and a weaker chin. Norris was fast enough to pull this off. Leonard hit hard enough to easily put the alabaster-chinned Norris on queer street with the first good combination. Terry was capable of that magic connect, though, and once in a while he might find it against Leonard.
I had the pleasure of meeting Terry before the Tyson Ruddock 1 fight and congratulated on his win over ray he seemed to be a nice humble fellow. -
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:09 AM #34
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Originally Posted by The Old LefHook View Post
Leonard was probably a top five all time welterweight. A good case can even be made for placing him at #2 behind Robinson. He will not get knocked out many days of the week by anyone at 147. The young man could handle himself.

Basilio. Some boxers simply do not stop attacking. If you are close enough to hit them that means they can hit you. The true swarmer, Basilio had good but not devastating power. I can see him shaking Leonard up a few times but not KO'ing him. Leonard himself was a dangerous fighter when in trouble.

It takes a fighter we have not seen the likes of (outside of Robinson) to KO Leonard anymore than haphazzardly. Even Robinson might have to settle for a decision most of the time.

There is a lot less evidence on the welterweight Mickey Walker. He had a lefhook that launched without a telegraph. The closest thing he might have faced to Leonard was Loughran at lightheavy. As he was against Loughran, it seems Walker might always be reaching for Leonard, reducing the steam on his shots.

You know what they say in football--any given team, any given night. There are guys who would beat Leonard, but most of the time he would beat them. There are those who could knock him cold with their perfect shot, but they will hardly ever land it.

By the time one reaches back to the likes of Barbados Joe Walcott, one is reduced in evidence to heresay and apochrypha--the words of a famous trainer or a grizzled opponent paying homage.

Leonard had an A grade chin, but not cast from the same magma as Chuvalo and Hagler.

One guy with a decent shot at KO'ing him was someone who actually did--Terry Norris--though Leonard was washed up when it happened. Norris had the kind of speed and one punch power that might have got the job done on Ray occasionally, even when Ray was more prime. Most of the time Norris would have got himself knocked out after hurting Leonard, but once in a while he might have landed a shot sufficient for a count out or a stoppage of the Marylander.
Norris did not stop Leonard. He knocked him down a couple of times enroute to a decision win.
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Old 05-15-2015, 02:30 PM #35
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I would say no, but Robinson would probably have the best chance.
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:33 PM #36
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Norris did not stop Leonard. He knocked him down a couple of times enroute to a decision win.
Thanks for correcting my memory.
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Old 05-15-2015, 05:59 PM #37
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Since this thread started I've been thinking & thinking and have had to watch some of his fights especially through adversity. Despite him having suffered a knock down or two I've never seen him in a disoriented state or lose his senses because he had a damn good set of whiskers at the lower weights.

I mean nostalgia wise I could name drop Ray Robinson but that wouldn't be fair as I personally don't think he's the G.O.A.T @ Welter.

Heavier weights is a whole different ball game though.
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Old 05-15-2015, 06:56 PM #38
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Originally Posted by StudentOfDaGame View Post
Since this thread started I've been thinking & thinking and have had to watch some of his fights especially through adversity. Despite him having suffered a knock down or two I've never seen him in a disoriented state or lose his senses because he had a damn good set of whiskers at the lower weights.

I mean nostalgia wise I could name drop Ray Robinson but that wouldn't be fair as I personally don't think he's the G.O.A.T @ Welter.

Heavier weights is a whole different ball game though.
he claimed Duran, Hearns and Marcos Gerardo had him hurt and Duran had him in a fog for a couple of rounds in the first fight. I am not sure if it was both fights where hearns may have hurt him he did not clarify
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:47 PM #39
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Originally Posted by rightsideup View Post
he claimed Duran, Hearns and Marcos Gerardo had him hurt and Duran had him in a fog for a couple of rounds in the first fight. I am not sure if it was both fights where hearns may have hurt him he did not clarify
It must have been the first fight between them back in the 15 rounders. That was an epic as well as brutal fight.

Sometimes I have to re-watch videos to see why it was called the Golden Era because the intensity and level of competition truly was something. Plus the matchmaking was of the highest order.
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