Comments Thread For: Arum Suggests Crawford's Next Fight Won't Be Televised by HBO

[Eff Pandas]

Honestly, I don't think Arum's interested in a rangey relatively skilled no-name boxer with genuine KO power like Indongo, it's high-risk and low-reward. We'll see though.

If he stays at 140 there isn't even anything BUT Indongo is the issue.

And to anyone, why was Indongo in the audience? Did he come on his own, did Arum/Crawford fly him there, what was he at the fight for exactly? I was legit looking for some GGG vs Canelo like move post-fight today cuz I missed the post-fight interview last night.

[The Gambler1981]

Interesting theory & no argument from me that Broner is the more sellable opponent.

I guess I just think getting Broner to agree to a fight where its probably gonna be a L for him is like trying to walk a cat down the street on a dog leash is my major issue with that happening at any point not even specifically the summer.

Or do you wanna invest in a promotion that might get canceled cuz Broner assaulted someone at a zoo or something nutty like that & gets locked up.

Broner's value is in that people want to see him get beat up really, so him catching a loss is not a huge deal and Crawford is a stud anyway so losing to him should not be that bad for him. So really it is about paying Broner and making it worthwhile enough for his side to want to allow that loss to go down. Arum does have some cards to play that can make that whole scenario easier to swallow for Haymon and company.

Broner is a loose cannon so I can't deny that last part, but to me it is a risk worth taking since at worst it costs Arum and Crawford time and perhaps the Indongo fight which is not worth that much more than a replacement level fight.

Just seems like a good spot that those sides could really start a working relationship, which may or may not be workable but I could at least see how it could be made to work for both sides as long as those are not the only fights done.

[killakali]

Interesting theory & no argument from me that Broner is the more sellable opponent.

I guess I just think getting Broner to agree to a fight where its probably gonna be a L for him is like trying to walk a cat down the street on a dog leash is my major issue with that happening at any point not even specifically the summer.

Or do you wanna invest in a promotion that might get canceled cuz Broner assaulted someone at a zoo or something nutty like that & gets locked up.

agreed. If Haymon wants to cash Broner iht vs a non pbc guy it's a Pacquiao fight not vs crawford. Broner is the underdog in both bjtnwoikd get doble the guarantee vs Pac.

Personally I think humpin would rather cash him out vs someone like danny garcia

[Scipio2009]

Well if the IBF goes to purse bid Arum has deeper pockets than Broner, so it is beneficial to work out a deal there.

I just think if Arum is on the outs at HBO he needs to be a bit more creative and Haymon needs to put on some really big shows he has done well this year but he needs to keep it going. So over the short to medium term they can work out a beneficial relationship and a card like this would be a good first step.

Arum could go into his pocket, but he'd still be digging in for a fight that'd be headlined by Ray Beltran. Where Arum can go and get a site fee for a headlining Ray Beltran fight is beyond me. Taking 75% of the bid money (plus whatever sponsors/side money that Easter can get) is a pretty decent spot for EasterJr to be in.

Maybe it's just me, but Haymon's deep pool of talent has been developing along, and I think he's got the depth to put on the really big shows, largely within his own orbit; the welterweight tournament (Thurman vs Brook/SpenceJr winner will likely be the near-term capper, as folks move into position behind that), the budding 154lbs tournament, Daniel Jacobs in Brooklyn, Leo Santa Cruz/Abner Mares in SoCal, the possible undisputed champion fights at 175lbs, the rising crop of DMV (Baltimore/DC/Virginia) fighters for MGM National Harbor, the rising crop of Michigan (Flint/Detroit) fighters for the Detroit area, Barclays Center and the broader MGM Resorts featuring big fights, and this coming Joshua-Wilder showdown, among other matchups, are more than enough to deliver these big shows, without having to bother with Arum and the way he operates.

[killakali]

You mean Arum would have to deal with About Billions Promotions, right?

Easter Jr is headlining his second show from the 8k-seat Huntington Center in his hometown of Toledo, OH, in the main event of a PBC on BounceTV card (after turning out most of the live crowd for his fight under Jacobs-Mora II at Santender Arena in PA).

What leverage could Top Rank possibly have with Ray Beltran? (it's not a fight that Easter Jr shouldn't win, Beltran doesn't draw on his own, the IBF rules are pretty clear, time is against Beltran, etc).

If the doubleheader is Crawford-Broner and EasterJr-Beltran, Haymon and About Billions Promotions has the bigger star in both matchups, and will dictate the fight accordingly.

your right. Easter isn't even a showtime fighter. Beltran has fought more on hbo than easter has on showtime. Easter fights on low level time buy cards with the same budget as pbc on FS1.

Broner and crawford are both way to expensive for bounce. Crawford makes more than Broner per fight. That fight would have to be a small ppv unless showtime wants to put up a 4.5 mil license fee.

[Scipio2009]

Idk why Arum couldn't be a "sham promoter" for PBC as ironic as that would be lol.



Didn't Crawford get sent to the UK to fight Burns under Hearn's promotion?

Although thinking about it more I suppose Hearn could send this fight to the US, still get his cut from Indongo + it could get picked up by Showtime or f#ck it lets go full crazy town...Fight is on FOX with Arum as a "sham" PBC promoter.

I'm kinda rooting on the middle option more just cuz I'm curious what this new fangled viewing option Steve Kim keeps talking about Arum rolling out soon is.

Arum had over $100m pass through his company from the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, and was miserable with every cent of that because Floyd and his camp dictated the event efforts to him. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but making more money on a fight that he's ever made and still being miserable about it doesn't bode well for working under the PBC banner, imo.

Showtime doesn't have a relationship with Top Rank and haven't seemed inclined to try and explore such a relationship either (the folks in charge may have changed, but I don't think that the institutional memory of folks at Showtime/CBS have forgotten how Arum dicked them on the assumed Pacquiao deal), and Top Rank's efforts with the TruTV deal don't make it all that likely that Haymon risks his relationships with FOX/FS1 or SpikeTV for Arum, and I doubt that Arum can convince anyone else to give him his own deal.

Haymon puts his trust in steady folks; DiBella, Hearn, Michel, Marguiles of Warriors Boxing, Tom Brown of TGB, Ellerbe/Floyd, etc. Operators who don't burn bridges, can properly execute events and, in essence, simply do the job without pissing folks off.

[BigStomps]

1. Top Rank has nowhere else to go, were they to be dropped by HBO; Arum has his streaming service and there are still the Mexican channels, but he's still persona non grata at Showtime and what he did with the TruTV deal makes it pretty clear that no cable broadcaster is likely to commit to Arum either.

2. HBO has nowhere else to look for fights, were they to let Top Rank go; Alvarez is around for PPV, and Golovkin is still there for regular HBO, but I doubt that they put too much heat behind a back-to-back losing Kovalev and the rising prospects under Golden Boy/K2/Main Events aren't ready to carry their own shows yet either.

Top Rank and HBO have built a home together, and they're stuck having to ride this out.

I think your wrong on this. HBO don't need Top Rank. They have Canelo, g string, Kovolev, Ward, Lemiux, chocolatito, and plenty of Golden Boy prospects that are ready for HBO like JoJo Diaz, Corrales, De la Hoya, Berchelt, ect..
So HBO will be alright without TOP RANK

[Boxing Logic]

Arum is probably mad HBO wouldn't pay for his Oscar Valdez card, and wouldn't accept a Crawford fight vs anyone worse than Diaz who he had to pay more than many B-sides, and yet as an HBO subscriber, I think Peter Nelson is doing amazing with the budget he has, and I think he has done amazing to demand only best available opponent fights pretty much, and I think he was 110% right to reject that Valdez card, as well as demand Diaz or bust for Crawford.

Why? Because there were huge favorites in all those fights, and the huge favorites won in all those fights. Three were total mismatches, and the only competitive fight of those four was against a matchmaker's carefully cherry picked opponent, Miguel Marriaga, with neither elite speed OR power, but enough durability, toughness, and solid fundamentals and Ring IQ to make it competitive.

However, none of those fights were that compelling.

Valdez's power disappointed against a higher echelon opponent, so it rarely felt Marriaga was in a ton of danger, and Marriaga didn't have the power to hurt Valdez, so there was little suspense in that regard. Neither possesses elite speed so it's not like there were electric exchanges or Rigondeaux-style electric accurate shots to provide excitement to compensate for the lack of power.

So when you have a fight between guys without elite speed, and where the power does not translate at least on that night at all, so without elite power, and the opponent may not even be ranked top 5 in the division, and the favorite wins without ever really being in danger or even getting dominated on points in a single round, how is that in any way a top fight, or a top product?

I mean, with respect to the fighters, and they deserve massive respect, I still have to make this point on behalf of the boxing FAN. If the fight does not involve two elite fighters, and it's not a war, and it's not an upset, and it doesn't do a great deal to move the division forward or progress anything, and neither fighter is able to display much flashy or eye-catching stuff all night, then what exactly is it?

I know what it's not. It's not a main event that Peter Nelson at HBO should be using HBO's boxing budget on when that budget is so limited this year. If he had a large budget, then sure, pay for the best card available every weekend and do boxing every week year round. If the money is there. But since it isn't, I'm glad Peter Nelson is picky and demands the best fights. When the best fight Top Rank is offering is Valdez-Marriaga, a B+ level fight in basically every way, and the other three fights they also want you to buy are complete mismatches, then yeah thanks but no thanks!

And I am not an Al Haymon fan either. But I'm just saying, Bob Arum can complain publicly and try to pressure Peter Nelson, but I hope Nelson holds firm. Until Bob Arum can start putting together better cards where his A-side fighters face legitimate danger both of being outpointed and being knocked out, which is where the real excitement and suspense comes in as a fan, Peter Nelson should keep saving HBO's budget for real matchups. Bob Arum should have put Mikey Garcia in there with Crawford back when he still had Garcia under contract, but he tried to build them up and marinate it and now look at the crappy matchups we get instead. Crawford-Matthysse should have been made before Matthysse ever took a beating vs Provodnikov and didn't have another war in him to make it a challenge. He shouldn't have trashed Rigondeaux after the Donaire performance, then maybe he'd still have him under contract and he could have made the Lomachenko fight IMMEDIATELY back then instead of trying to build that as well, and now it may never happen

The list goes on and on. Remember Gamboa-Lopez? And if Bob was truly delaying the Mayweather fight alongside Floyd, that can never be erased from his legacy as a boxing promoter, robbing boxing history of the best matchup of all time so that he could keep raking in PPV money against the backdrop "could May-Pac be next?"

Boxing in general needs to stop trying to "build" all these good matchups into mega fights, because half the time they fall apart before then for one or twenty reasons, and then they never happen at all. Would you rather at least have these fights, or not have them at all because you waited? Boxing needs to understand that to create real superstars and have real mega matchups every few months (yes it's possible!), you're going to need to sacrifice some of these great matchups long before they hit their peak.

By sacrifice, I mean make them before anyone cares. Yes, if they had waited to make Roy Jones vs BHOP #1 until after BHop was undisputed at middleweight, the fight could have made say 40 million bucks. Instead, because they made it early, when no one knew how good BHop was, it probably only made 5% of that. That is an example of using up a mouthwatering matchup before it becomes a big money event, but guess what? Through sacrificing matchups like that, and a handful of others, you create the hardcore following for the victor, Roy Jones, which is what the superstardom becomes based on because the hardcore fans tell the casuals who the best guys are, and that's who the casuals start to pay attention to.

So yeah, Lomachenko vs Mikey Garcia, you can marinate that four more years, and make it a 15 dollar fight, and the winner will be a big star towards the end of the their career and be able to make big fights for a year or two before they get too old and have to retire, or you can make that fight now, have it only be a 2 million dollar fight, but then whoever wins will be #1 pound for pound, with all the fanfare comes with it. Then you sacrifice another matchup like that with the same guy, and another, and then after winning three of those, even before they can became huge name fights, he will already be a big star, and now you will have five years left to milk that stardom, instead of waiting until the end of your career when it's too late to capitalize anyway.

And oh, that's just at the start of the five years. Because you have the five years now, now you can actually build even bigger. Instead of being on ESPN First Take and Sportscenter four years from now for the Lomachenko-Mikey Garcia matchup, you can do it now, win, and then get on that **** this year! And then again for your next fight, instead of waiting four years.

I mean when Pacquiao fought Morales and Barrera, those fights did like 400k PPVs or whatever. They could have marinated those matchups another two years, and done 600k. Today, it seems like promoters would always choose that option. But guess what? Because they made Pacquiao-Morales and Pacquiao-Barrera earlier, sure it hurt those PPV sales, but only because those fights happened were the next PPVs able to sell millions.

Boxing needs to understand that you need to spend money to make money. Or in the case of boxing matchmaking, you don't "spend" money by making the matchups earlier than their financial peaks, but you sacrifice immediate money in order to make much more money down the line. That's why I said sacrifice. Promoters and fighters should learn this. So if Lomachenko fights Mikey and Linares and Rigondeaux right now, he might sacrifice tens of millions of dollars that he could have gotten out of those fights if he waited three years for them, but on the flipside if he takes those fights now, his fight against say Gervonta Davis three years from now will be not twice, but ten times as big as if it otherwise would have been. And there will always be someone else emerging to make a superfight if you are on that level. Look how Floyd never ran out of guys to sell 700k+ PPVs against. There are always new guys to fight so why has boxing all of a sudden gotten so conservative and protective about a handful of matchups? Like they have to maximize every time a Lomachenko-Garcia type of fight comes along because top opponents don't come around too often, so you have to maximize every one?

Bull****! They do come around plenty, it's just boxing doesn't make a quarter of the the top fights that it could. Not to mention, you wait for years for MATCHUP X to reach its financial peak before you make it, but then the fighters are past their primes and don't throw as many punches, so the fight is boring, and now no one is interested in the rematch! Boxing has become so obsessed with marinating singular mega fights that the sport has forgotten they should be trying to create fights that will result in rematches and trilogies, because rematches often sell more than the first fight! So what journalists have missed talking about the financial success of May-Pac is yes it was a huge success on the night, but if they had played it smarter they could have done it twice! Maybe the fight only makes 400 million instead of 600 million the first time if they make it four years earlier, but at that point it would have been a good enough fight that just as many people would have watched the rematch if not more! So you could have had 800 million to a billion instead of 600 million.

Or what if they made the fight 8 years ago, when Pacquiao was at his absolute peak? Maybe it only makes 200 million back then instead of 600, but Pacquiao knocks Floyd down twice and loses a split decision in a fight of the year with controversy abounding. Everyone is talking about it, so when the rematch happens, it makes 800 million, it's even bigger than when the fight actually happened in real life. Because it's still in Pacquiao's peak, this time he wins a split decision. It's 1-1 now. This is becoming the biggest boxing trilogy in history now. Both fighters have a few interim fights, and when it comes time for the trilogy match, it makes a billion.

If they had played it smart like that, they could have made a total of 2 billion dollars off three fights, instead of 600 million. So how "successful" were they really in terms of how they played it? They only cashed in on 30% of what they could made, all while robbing the sport itself of a historic matchup if not trilogy when the fighters were in their primes and turning an entire generation of potential fans off of the sport at least temporarily? They not only left 70% on the table for their own individual event, but they depressed the sport's financial ceiling as a whole. How is that smart???

Peter Nelson at HBO seems to be one of the few people who understand this. I hope Arum and the other promoters will figure it out as well, but if they don't, I hope Nelson continues to hold form and only spend HBO's money if promoters can deliver THE fight the fans want to see. Not a "nice" fight, not a "this is also a good fight," but THE fight, and then after the next, THE next fight. The fans are who pay the subscription, so Nelson is right to respect that and demand only the fights they want to see if he is going to spend their money on fights. Arum still does not seem to get that.

[Scipio2009]

your right. Easter isn't even a showtime fighter. Beltran has fought more on hbo than easter has on showtime. Easter fights on low level time buy cards with the same budget as pbc on FS1.

Broner and crawford are both way to expensive for bounce. Crawford makes more than Broner per fight. That fight would have to be a small ppv unless showtime wants to put up a 4.5 mil license fee.

Easter Jr is headlining his 2nd PBC on BounceTV card in about a month. If the rumors are true, BounceTV was one of the paying shows, so there goes that point. You add that Easter Jr is also selling out his 8k-seat building in Toledo, and you get onto even shakier ground.

How many shows has Beltran headlined again?

Beyond that, in what world does Crawford make anywhere near what Broner makes on a fight; Broner owns his own ****ing show, lol. About Billions gets the rights fee from Showtime, the proceeds from the live gate in Cincinnati, event sponsors, the share from the international TV rights, the other revenues, and that all gets shared with Adrien Broner, who then pockets whatever other personal sponsorships that he can get.

Crawford gets his purse, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Top Rank isn't keeping the back-end money.

[Eff Pandas]

Arum had over $100m pass through his company from the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, and was miserable with every cent of that because Floyd and his camp dictated the event efforts to him. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but making more money on a fight that he's ever made and still being miserable about it doesn't bode well for working under the PBC banner, imo.

Showtime doesn't have a relationship with Top Rank and haven't seemed inclined to try and explore such a relationship either (the folks in charge may have changed, but I don't think that the institutional memory of folks at Showtime/CBS have forgotten how Arum dicked them on the assumed Pacquiao deal), and Top Rank's efforts with the TruTV deal don't make it all that likely that Haymon risks his relationships with FOX/FS1 or SpikeTV for Arum, and I doubt that Arum can convince anyone else to give him his own deal.

Haymon puts his trust in steady folks; DiBella, Hearn, Michel, Marguiles of Warriors Boxing, Tom Brown of TGB, Ellerbe/Floyd, etc. Operators who don't burn bridges, can properly execute events and, in essence, simply do the job without pissing folks off.

Thats why it was my distant 3rd option.

Like I said doing something with Hearn for Indongo seems like the most likely next move to me. The US seems doable, but I wouldn't completely take the UK off the table although its a valid point that a non-UK main event fight makes less sense.

I think the Broner move is viable & certainly a possibility, but I have no faith that Broner will get what he wants to be paid to sell another L on his record. Guy couldn't even agree to a career high payday in a more winnable fight vs Manny that would have given him bigger future paydays if he won. I can't see him accepting less money for a worse fight for him that has less upside even if he does win cuz nobody knows who the f#ck Crawford is still.

I suspect Arum is gonna do his own Haymon version of flipping the script soon with whatever this Steve Kim mystery move is that to me sounds like it maybe a deal with a streaming service like Amazon, FB, Hulu, Netflix & Crawford might be the guinea pig for that. And if that gets put out in the media any time soon thats gonna be the move with Crawford vs f#cking somebody & I'd assume Indongo still. I can't believe Indongo is just randomly coming to the US to be in audience for the Crawford fight without anything going on behind the scenes.