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Old 12-29-2018, 01:04 AM #1
Marchegiano Marchegiano is offline
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Points: 63,444.60
Bank: 1,355.59
Total Points: 64,800.19
Rocky Marciano ATG fighter - Freedom. Thanks for thanking me! - Terry A 
Default Boxing authorities quick guide. Clubs, Commissions, Sanctioning Bodies, Laws, etc.

Ancient Olympics rules written by champion Onomastos upheld by the Hellano***ai of Olympus starting at 686 BC. This **** was religiously followed, no hyperbole.

Could throw in the Roman Colosseum but that's gladiator stuff. Roman champion boxers were still Olympians of course, not colosseum gladiators. The Gladiators were not thought of as equals to the Pygmachos of Olympia.

James Figg's Amphitheatre, James Figg controlled boxing outright. Who he said was best simply was until after he dies and his student dispute over who is the new Figg. 1722 is the usual accept starting date.

Broughton’s Rules written by Jack Broughton in 1743. Mostly to make sure no one amphitheatre controls boxing after he retires. His reign was disputed by another star pupil of Figgs who had opened his own amphitheatre to compete with Jack/Figg's after Figg had past. Jack winning made him the clear champion but at this point in history the man who was seen as the trainer of the fighters was the man who elected champions. Prior to Jack most champs were the guy Figg said was champ and most disputed where handled likewise. Jack ended a corruption that actually worked in his favor and Slack, the man who ended Jack, is your first non-Figg trained champion. Broughton also invented soft gloves for training that would later evolve into gloves we fight with today.

Champion John Jackson started the Pugilistic Society in 1814 which introduced London Prize Ring Rules in 1838. Cheating had become common place in boxing, Jackson looked to make boxing more of a high society affair and needed to rid boxing of some level of nefarity. Ironically Jackson won his title by flagrant cheating, he held his opponent by the pony tail, illegal as **** even by Broughton's Rules.

Things get a bit tricky with the Fair Play Club beginning with champion Tom Spring in 1828. They added a few rules that handled outside interference and had much the same purpose a John Jackson's Society however Jackson's Society would not write until a decade after the formation of the Fair Play Club. So for most of its life the FPC held fights under the Broughton Rules set with additional rules and officials to enforce the new rules and prevent invasions of the ring by supporters. Ironically The FPC crowned the single dirtiest boxing champion I know of; Jem Ward.

Dixie, as in south-east US, did have a form of boxing that existed from the very early 1800s to the late 1800s called Rough and Tumble. Today that's just a phrase that means a gritty fight or fighter, back then it was what the world called Dixie's form of boxing. Rules were negotiated to nonexistent. Men lost by giving up or being stopped. A common way to stop a man outside of KO would be to pluck their eyes from their head, or castraition. What makes R&T different from the gladiators, outside of having even less rules and being even more brutal, is the fact that the first American bare knuckle champions are all R&T fighters who did so well they were able to grab BR/FPC/LPR Rules titles and rival England despite its century of well trained pedigree boxers until ultimately American boxing supersedes English boxing.

The Puglistics Society writes the London Prize Ring Rules in 1838.

Pugilistic Association's Revised Rules come in 1853. The name is changed but the society is still the Pugilistic Society started by Jackson.

Marquis of Queensberry Rules Governing Contests for Endurance written in 1865 by John Graham Chambers. Published in 1867 by John Douglas ( Ninth Marquess of Queensberry). Adopted in 1888.

New Rules of the Pugilistic Benevolent Society written 1866. Again, a new name but they're still the Pugilistic Society.

Amateur Athletic Association formed in 1880 by three men at Oxford. Now called the AAA of England. A national governing body for athletics.

The Olympic Club was established in New Orleans in mid-1883 as a gentlemen's athletic club catering to the city's expanding immigrant population in the Third District, known then as the Faubourg Washington, just downriver from the Faubourg Marigny. Between 1883 and 1893 the club's membership grew from twenty-three to nearly eleven hundred gentlemen engaging in a wide variety of athletic and leisure-time pursuits ranging from target-shooting and gymnastics to billiards and boxing

The American Fair-Play Rules are a set of rules intended for amateur boxing matches. Recorded by John Boyle O'Reilly in Ethics of Boxing and Manly Sport and by professional boxer William Edwards in his 1888 book, The Art of Boxing and Science of Self-Defense, together with a Manual of Training. Edwards attributes the rules to a "David Blanchard of Boston Mass." Further, Edwards claims that the rules are based off of the Marquess of Queensberry rules and that it "has been warmly endorsed by many prominent lovers of the manly art." The reasons Edwards gives for adoption of these rules are, in his estimation, that they "will encourage fairer and more harmless, and at the same time more scientific and interesting exhibitions of the old and much admired sport."

Amateur athletic Union or AAU was founded in 1888 by William Buckingham Curtis to establish standards and uniformity in amateur sport. It's basically the US version of the AAA.

John L. Sullivan defeats Jake Kilrain effectively ending LPRR's run as the rules to use and replacing them with gloved rules. Most historians mark John L as the first Queensberry champion.

New Orleans City Ord. permits glove fights sponsored by athletic Clubs in 1890.

National Sporting Club was founded on 5 March 1891 as a private club run under very strict rules regarding both the boxers and the members. Bouts would take place after dinner, before about 1,300 members and guests. The bouts would be fought in silence as no talking was permitted during the rounds. The club built up a great tradition of sportsmanship and fair play. Founders are John Fleming, A.F. "Peggy" Bettinson, and Hugh Lowther, 5th Earl of Lonsdale

1896 The Horton Law legalized boxing in the state of New York. It had been signed into law by the governor April 17, 1896 and became effective September 1, 1896. It was repealed by the Lewis Law, and officially expired August 31, 1900.

Colorado State Boxing Commission formed in 1899 to first legalized and then legislated boxing.

French Federation of Boxing Clubs forms in 1903 and adheres to the French boxing and Queensberry rules. A Belgian version would pop up soon after, but a language barrier keeps me from exact dates.

Modern Olympic Games adds boxing in 1904

National Sporting Club establishes weight classes in 1909

Anti-Prize Fight Film Law was a United States federal law from 1912 to 1940 that prohibited the exhibition of prizefight films. It appears to have been introduced by Senator Smith of Iowa back in 1910. The law also had a provision, perhaps deleted before the law went into effect, that prohibited the transmission of descriptions of prizefights via electronic transmission/wire. Battling Nelson had appeared before Congress in May 1910 to oppose this bill.

The Frawley Law was New York State legislation permitting professional boxing that existed from August 29, 1911 to Nov. 14, 1917. The 1917 ring-death of Young McDonald was largely responsible for its expiration and the prohibition of boxing in the state until the 1920 Walker Law.

International Boxing Union was created June 1911 in Paris, France. It was an attempt to create a unified international governing body for professional boxing. Signatories of the protocol for the IBU were: Paul Rousseau, President of the French Federation of Boxing Clubs for France, Fred Tilbury, an Englishman and President of the Belgian Federation of Boxing Clubs for Belgium, and Victor Breyer, President of the French Society for the propagation of English boxing, having an official mandate by the New York State Athletic Commission, and consequently acting on behalf of some American boxing authorities.

The IBU suspended operations with the outbreak of World War I, but resumed action on February 5, 1920. Eventually, by the end of 1942, the IBU was in the hands of the Nazis and Fascists, who transformed it into the "Associazione Pugilistica Professionistica Europea" (APPE). By December 1, 1944, the IBU/APPE was dormant. In 1946, from the ashes of the APPE, the European Boxing Union (EBU) came into being.

South American Boxing Profissional Union Version formed in 1910 as well. A regional sanctioning body for continental South America.

American Boxing Association was a short lived sanctioning body from 1914 to the end of 1915 created by Tom Andrews. It was the US answer to the IBU.

Stadiums Limited owned and administered four venues on Australia's east coast at West Melbourne Stadium, Sydney Stadium, Leichhardt Stadium and Brisbane Festival Hall. The company was founded in 1915 by John Wren and Dick Lean Senior who acted as the general manager. Stadiums initially began presenting both boxing and professional wrestling. Wren offered a great deal of money to boxers and wrestlers to perform.

In 1914 voters statewide approve an amendment to California law limiting bouts to a maximum of four rounds, and the value of a prize to a maximum of $25.00 for a boxer. The ten year "Four-Round Era" begins.


New Jersey's 1918 Hurley Law permits 8 rounders. 12-rounders and No Decision bouts permitted starting April 1920

During The People v. Packey O’Gatty case the New York Supreme Court ruled to repeal the 1911 Frawley Act in November 1917 also automatically outlawed club-membership boxing in the state. In effect by 1918.

The Walker Law is named after its sponsor, Senator James J. Walker, this became the most influential American boxing legislation. The New York Senate, by a vote of 30-19, adopted it March 25, 1920. It once again legalized professional boxing in New York state. Its code of boxing rules established standard weight divisions.

During the 1920 Summer Olympics in Antwerp, representatives from the national associations of England, France, Belgium, Brazil and the Netherlands met in a preliminary consortium for the foundation of an international boxing federation: The Federation Internationale de Boxe Amateur (FIBA). The official foundation has been celebrated on 24 August. Right after, international competitions appeared in the boxing arena, allowing amateurs to compete in well-known tournaments.

The NYSAC was founded in 1920, when the Walker Law legalized prizefighting. It is a division of the New York State Department of State which regulates all contests and exhibitions of unarmed combat within the state of New York, including licensure and supervision of promoters, boxers, professional wrestlers, seconds, ring officials, managers, and matchmakers.

National Boxing Association formed in 1921 as a response to the NYSAC. The NBA composed of 17 American states. By late 1948, New York and Massachusetts were the only states where boxing was conducted which were not members of the NBA. New York had its own highly-influential New York State Athletic Commission.

In 1922 the NBA adopts two new weight classes: Junior Lightweight, 130 lbs. maximum, and Junior Welterweight, 140 lbs., but not recognizing any champion of those new divisions. The NBA also announces that it will reduce the number of official divisions from 13 to 10 - flyweight, bantamweight, featherweight, junior lightweight, lightweight, junior welterweight, welterweight, middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight.

In 1923 Pennsylvania created a Commission modeled after Walker Law; Penn permits ten round bouts to a decision, to be made by two judges and a referee if they disagree.

The Chicago Golden Gloves dates back to 1923, when Chicago Tribune Sports Editor Arch Ward came up with the idea of a city-wide amateur boxing tournament to be sponsored by the newspaper. Boxing, however, was not legal in the state of Illinois at the time. Upon legalization of boxing in the state in 1926, the Chicago Tribune held the first of the Chicago Golden Gloves tournaments that we know today in 1928.

"Four-Round Era" ends with bouts conducted at the Hollywood Legion Stadium. California then enters a "Fightless Period" until the new state athletic commission is established under the recently-enacted legislation.

Los Angeles City Attorney Jesse Stephens rules that the city's boxing ordinances conflict with newly-enacted state law. California permits 10-round fights by 1925.

Illinois legalizes boxing in 1925, that same year The Illinois Athletic Commission is organized, John C. Righeimer and Paul Prehn are announced as the Commissioners.

In late 1926, Paul Gallico of the New York Daily News and fellow editors were having dinner. Gallico threw out the idea of an amateur boxing tournament, suggesting that it be called the New York Daily News Golden Gloves. Capt. Joseph M. Patterson, newspaper publisher, quickly approved of the name and idea, agreeing to the New York Daily News' sponsorship of the tournament.

Colorado forms boxing commission in 1927, abolished by 1977 and re-established in '99.

In the 1920s boxing became a sport with mass appeal. Boxers could appear at large venues and earn more money than at the National Sporting Club. As a result, the club was forced to open its doors to the public in October 1928. However, in 1929, it was forced to close its premises in Covent Garden. A new organisation, the British Boxing Board of Control, was formed to control the sport. Most of the board of the new organisation were senior members of the NSC. The NSC was given a permanent seat on the new Board of Control and retained this privilege until 1937.

Washington legalizes boxing and then 10-rounders in 1933

1933 In Texas boxing is legalized. Prior to this time certain cities allowed boxing under local laws. The sport had been illegal ever since Gov. Culberson stopped the proposed Fitzsimmons v. Corbett bout in 1895. Under the new law boxing matches were not permitted to last longer than 10 rounds, except championship matches which were not to exceed 15 rounds. No round was to last longer than 3 minutes and decisions were to be rendered.

The first annual Pacific Northwest Golden Gloves Tournament commences at Seattle's Crystal Pool in 1935.

Federation Pugilistic Italiana forms in Rome in 1938.

The Associazione Pugilistica Professionistica Europea evolved from the former IBU and FIBA. In 1942, FIBA, the world body for amateur boxers, met in Rome. Germany was to have been the host of the 1942 first world championship tournament for amateur but World War II interfered with that plan. Italy was appointed the site of the 1943 European championships. Near the same time in 1942 the IBU was in the hands of the German Nazis and Italian Fascists.

On 5 June 1942, the Associazione Pugilistica Professionistica Europea (APPE) was formally established, replacing the IBU. The lira was adopted as the official currency for bout and congress fees. Vittorio Mussolini, eldest son of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, was declared the APPE's first President. The first official meeting of the APPE's steering committee was held June 7, who recognized the following European champions: Urbinati (fly), Bondavalli (bantam and feather), Botta (light), vacant (welter), Besselmann (middle), Musina (light-heavy), and Max Schmeling (heavy).

The APPE also changed the division weights, adopting the kilogram, and abolishing the hated pounds: 51 kilos (fly), 54 (bantam), 58 (feather), 62 (light), 67 (junior middle--abolishing the term "welter"), 73 (middle), 80 (light-heavy), and 80-plus (heavy). Ultimately, all European bouts held under the APPE were matched at these weights until December 1944.

It was planned that after the Axis won World War II, the APPE would be transformed into the APPI, with Rome as its seat. But by December 1, 1944, the IBU/APPE was extinct. The British Boxing Board of Control and the French FFB tried to constitute a new European body--the European Boxing Association (EBA) but other countries protested because the two veteran countries would have reintroduced the principle that the European Champion would be decided by a bout between British and French champions. Instead, in 1946, from the ashes of the APPE, the European Boxing Union (EBU) came into being.

In November 1946 a consensus was met to give way for FIBA to regain the loss of credibility due to the behaviour of some leading officials during World War II. FIBA was dissolved and the English Amateur Boxing Association in partnership with the French Boxing Federation decided to create AIBA; the Association Internationale de Boxe Amateur. The President of the French Boxing Federation, Emile Grémaux, was elected to the position of President.

International Boxing Club was formed by Joe Louis with Jim Norris & Arthur Wirtz In 1949 to promote boxing at Madison Square Garden, Polo Grounds, Yankee Stadium, St. Nicholas Arena, Chicago Stadium and Detroit Olympia.

Madison Square Garden paid Mike Jacobs of Twentieth Century Boxing Club $100,000 to relinquish his rights to promote fights at the Garden. Jacobs had become ill as a result of a stroke and the Garden wanted to turn over promotion to the IBC. The IBC had obtained the contracts of four contenders from Joe Louis for $150,000 on his retirement, and wanted to promote the fights in the Garden.

The IBC developed a stranglehold on championship boxing, promoting 47 out of 51 championship bouts in the United States from 1949 to 1955. Its major revenues were acquired through television of twice-weekly boxing bouts from the Garden.

Oriental & Pacific Boxing Federation was formed in 1954 by the Japanese, Korean, and Filipino boxing commissions. It was originally named the Orient Boxing Federation, but changed to the Oriental and Pacific Boxing Federation when the Australian National Boxing Federation joined in 1977.

The Commonwealth Boxing Council was establish in 1954. The CBC has taken plenty of names and throughout history its importance has changed, but it has always overseen commonwealth championships.

When Fidel Castro banned professional sports from Cuba in 1962, the dreams of thousands of fighters died along with the notion that El Presidente would establish a democratic government. In the decade that preceded Castro's revolution many world-class fighters came from Cuba. Who knows how many more would have emerged if not for the ban.

NBA changes name to World Boxing Association to reflect its size and power.

The NYSAC, EBU, BBBofC, CBC, SABPUV, and OPBF all joined together to form the WBC in 1963.

Connecticut bans boxing in 1965.

Australian National Boxing Federation, The body was founded in 1965 as the Australian Boxing Federation. In 1980s, the body took its current name of Australian National Boxing Federation. In 1977 Australian Boxing Federation joined the Oriental and Pacific Boxing Federation and Pan Asian Boxing Association. It is a WBC affiliate.

New Zealand Pro Boxing Association forms in 1966 as the South Pacific Boxing Association under the CBC. They changed their name to NZPBA in 1984. They are WBC.

The WBC established the North American Boxing Federation in 1969 as part of its creation of a variety of regional boxing federations not already covered by the federations that comprised the WBC. These regional federations would sanction championship bouts and crown regional champions in the same manner as the regional authorities like the EBU conduct their regions. These champions would be given consideration in the world rankings put out by the WBC. The first NABF title bout was between Sonny Liston and Leotis Martin on December 6, 1969.

The African Boxing Union was founded in 1973 as a regional body with in the WBC very similarly to how I described NABF but for Africa.

The USBA is formed in 1977 as the WBA's version of the NABF. A regional body for America whose champions were automatically ranked in the WBA world ranking. By 83 they will grow their influence and form an internal wing (USBA-I) and later that year split from the WBA to become the International Boxing Federation.

Boxing Union of Ireland split from the BBBofC controlled IBBofC in 1980. The BUI was recognized by the WBC the same year they split from the BBBofC.

The WAA is a world-wide title sanctioning body for professional boxing. It was founded in early 1981 by Pat O'Grady, after the World Boxing Association removed his son, WBA World Lightweight Champion Sean O'Grady as champion for not defending against their top contender. Unfortunately, Sean lost the WAA title in his first defense. If that didn't make the WAA joke enough in 1983 Monte Masters was married to Pat's daughter so the WAA fed him an easy fight for their vacant HW title, then in 1984 stripped him of the title because he had divorced her! To my knowledge Masters is the only hw in history to be stripped due to a sour father-in-law and a divorce.

In a 1981 Sports Illustrated article, a WBA judge claimed that he was influenced by the WBA president to support certain fighters. The same article also discussed a variety of bribes paid to WBA officials to obtain title fights or rankings with the organization. In a 1982 interview, the promoter Bob Arum claimed that he had to pay off WBA officials to obtain rankings for his fighters. I know it seems out of place right now, but trust me Bob and paying off officials will come up again and when that happens it's unavoidable this topic so you may as well recognize Arum admitting to bribing his men to the top as early as 82.

USBA splits from the WBA to form the IBF in 1983. Shortly after, in 1983, Larry Holmes single handedly forced the WBA and WBC to recognize IBF champions in their ranks by becoming the IBF champion. The IBF is the third major sanctioning body from here out. The USBA continues to serve as the IBF's regional body.

At the 1985 World Boxing Council (WBC) annual convention in Bangkok, Thailand, the late Sahasombhop Srisomvongse and representatives from Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, India, Qatar, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Jordan, Malaysia and Kuwait launched the Asian Boxing Council (ABC) as a confederation affiliated with WBC.

The World Boxing Federation (WBF), originally established in 1988 in the USA, was one of the world’s busiest professional boxing sanctioning organizations during the 90s until being forced to dissolve in 2004. After a five-year interregnum period, the WBF was re-established in 2009 as a non-profit sports organization properly registered in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. Not a major body.

The WBO started after a group of Puerto Rican and Dominican businessmen broke out of the WBA's 1988 annual convention in Isla Margarita, Venezuela over disputes regarding what rules should be applied. By 2000 the WBA was giving the same recognition to WBO champions as it did to WBC and IBF champions. In 2004 the WBC recognized the WBO, and in 2007 the WBO would gain the IBF's recognition making it the fourth major body.

The Women's International Boxing Federation is one of the more recognized world championship fight sanctioning organizations in women's boxing. Founded in 1989, it is not associated with the similarly named International Boxing Federation, which promotes men's and women's boxing. The WIBF is an independent sanctioning body that could be considered major for women's boxing.

International Boxing Council (IBC) formed in 1990 as a governing body that sanctions and recognizes world title bouts. It is to be distinguished from the International Boxing Club (IBC) promotional outfit of the 1940s and '50s. The IBC is not a major world body.

The International Women's Boxing Federation forms in 1992 as the women's wing of the IBF. IWBF and WIBF are both major players in womens boxing.

International Boxing Organization was founded in 1993 was a world and regional body. I the late 90s it got some praise for its computer driven ranking system. From 2014 onward the IBO has adopted Boxrec's. The IBO is not a major body.

The Commonwealth of Independent States and Slovenia Boxing Bureau was created in 1993 by WBC vice-president Edmund Lipinski. CISSBB was an affiliated regional organization of the World Boxing Council aimed at the development of professional boxing in former USSR, Eastern European, and Central Asian nations.

North American Boxing Organization was formed by the WBO as a regional title similar to the WBC's NABF. NABO champions are automatically ranked on WBO world ranks.

The World Boxing Union is a world sanctioning body. The original WBU was founded in January 1995 by IBF European representative Jon W. Robinson. The WBU had a golden period between 1996–2004 when its title contests were often shown live on satellite and terrestrial television. After the death of the UK WBU founder, the organization fell into dormancy until 2010. After realizing there were no legal remaining assets of the UK based WBU and after a period of years had passed of no activity of the original company nor an operating subsequent company of such brand , the USA based WBU brand was formed, registered, licensed, and launched under the stewardship of United States of America citizen Don “Moose” Lewis-President of the WAA. The WBU is not a major body although there was a period when it was more respected then the WBO.

Professional Boxing Safety Act of 1995

Pan Asian Boxing Association also known as PABA is an organisation for professional boxing in the Central Asia, Oceania, Pan Pacific, Eurasia and Southeast and Far East nations. It was formed in 1995 and is headquartered in Seoul. It was a regional body for the WBA until 2016-2017ish.

In 1996 the International Boxing Association is formed as an independent world body. The IBA's world championship is widely considered to be a "stepping stone" title, one which boxers win on their way to fight for a more prestigious world title. It has gained acclaim with its titles having been held by a number of notable boxers. Not a major world body.

The International Boxing Union is a professional boxing sanctioning body founded in Atlanta, Georgia, United States, in 1996. It is an unrelated continuation to the International Boxing Union, based in Europe, which operated until the Second World War. IBU titles are often springboard titles for boxers who progress to gain additional titles of the more recognized Big Four. Although it was not formed by any affiliate of the former IBU the current IBU is meant to be a continuation of the former IBU and recognizes former IBU champions as their own champions. So as far as the IBU is concerned Shannon Briggs and Lee Savold are both their champions.

Professional Boxing Safety Act of 1996

The IFBA (International Female Boxing Association) is one of the more recognized world championship fight sanctioning organizations in Women's boxing. The IFBA was formed in 1997, and is based in Henderson, Nevada. For women's boxing is could be considered a major body.

The North American Boxing Association (NABA) is a boxing governing body which was established in 1997 by the WBA as a regional body affiliated with the World Boxing Association. Like the NABF, USBA, and NABO before it, NABA is US based regional body that ensures its champions are world ranked fighters.

In 1998 the WBA formed a regional body for northern Africa and continental Europe, by 2001 the EBA was reduced to Europe.

The WPBF come in 1998. Here's a bit from their constitution, I think it says more about them then I can: The World Professional Boxing Federation (WPBF)™ is an international sanctioning body that sanctions professional boxing matches and awards the WPBF world championship title and subordinate championship title. It is dedicated to promoting and serving the sport of professional boxing,and to implementing uniform safety measures, computerized rankings system and uniform procedures for the protection of professional boxers as well as the conduct of championship matches,and implementing fairness and equal opportunities at all times, impartially, honestly and fairly to everybody, with its own authority to regulate, control and supervise the conduct of sanctioned matches in its own jurisdictions, throughout the Africa, Asia-Pacific, Europe, North America and Latin America. - So basically the IBO be even more pretentious while being even more obscure.

U.S. Government takes control of IBF (Dec. 1999) Despite achieving an appearance of legitimacy, subsequent to a three-year investigation started by 1996 charges levied by former heavyweight champion Michael Moorer; IBF's reputation was ruined 1999 with founder Lee's indictment for racketeering and other violations for taking bribes in exchange for high boxer rankings. Indicted on federal racketeering and racketeering conspiracy charges were president, Robert W. Lee, 65; his son and IBF liaison, Robert Lee Jr., 38; former IBF executive and Virginia boxing commissioner Donald William Brennan, 86; and South American IBF representative Francisco Fernandez. Lee was subsequently convicted of money-laundering and tax evasion in August 2000, then sentenced, in 2001, to 22 months in prison and fined $25,000.

In 2000, citing extortion; boxing promoter Bob Arum voluntarily testified to having paid IBF president Bobby Lee $100,000 in two installments in 1995, as the first half of a $200,000 bribe, through "middleman, Stanley Hoffman," adding that Lee had first demanded $500,000 to approve the Schulz-Foreman fight, but had settled for the lesser amount of $200,000 (half of which was never paid).] Arum was sanctioned and fined $125,000 by the Nevada State Athletic Commission. Boxing promoters Cedric Kushner and Dino Duva also admitted to making similar payments to Lee.

The North American Boxing Council is a professional Boxing and Mixed Martial Arts sanctioning body headquartered in the United States at Indianapolis, IN since 1999. NABC boxing champions have been televised on HBO Boxing, Friday Night Fights and Fox Sports. Boxers who have contested for the title include Evander Holyfield, Félix Trinidad, Larry Donald, Ricardo Mayorga, Stevie Johnston, Joshua Clottey, Ian Gardner, and Damian Fuller. Promoters who have held NABC contests include Don King, Fred Berns, and Gary Shaw. On July 28, 2006, the NABC became the first professional boxing sanctioning body to sanction a Mixed Martial Arts bout when Jessie Chilton defeated Eddie Sanchez at Legends of Fighting 8 in Indianapolis to win the NABC 185 lb MMA championship. The NABC has produced its own MMA cards as NABC Extreme Fighting. NABC mixed martial arts champions have been televised on the HDNet cable channel and on Cage Fury Fighting Championships pay per view broadcasts. NABC sanctioning of MMA matches and the implications for the future of professional boxing were examined in an NBC Sports story by Kenny Rice May 29, 2007. As of 2014 the NABC adopted the Ring Magazine model of recognizing champions based won/loss record, quality of performance, strength of opposition, and computerized rankings, to fill vacant titles. The NABC recognizes the Ring Magazine champion as world champion.

The Women's International Boxing Association (WIBA) a sanctioning body for women's professional boxing came into existence in July 2000, and quickly grew into a major force in the sport. The WIBA rates all worthy professional female boxers, including champions of other sanctioning bodies. WIBA also encourages unification bouts with other major women's sanctioning bodies like the IWBF, IFBA, WIBF, and the WBC Female Titles.

Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act happens in 2000

National Boxing Commission Act of 2001.

In 2002 the IBO forms a regional American body similar to NABF, NABA, NABO, and USBA but for the IBO. it is called the United States Boxing Organization.

2006 see the WPBF add an American regional body of their own. this one is called the United States Boxing Council. Like the IBO's USBO the USBC is a regional body for a minor world body.

Eurasia Pacific Boxing Council is an organisation for professional boxing in the Central Asia, Oceania, Pan Pacific, Eurasia and Southeast and Far East nations. It was formed in 2014 as a WBC affiliate and is headquartered in Seoul.

The Eurasian Boxing Parliament (EBP) was formed in 2015. From their website: a Professional Boxing Confederation that unites countries from the Eurasian Continent (Europe & Asia). Promoting democracy and competitive fairness, EBP is a first organisation of it's kind. 'Victoria per Veritas' is the motto of EBP which translates 'Victory by Justice'. - They are an IBF affiliate.

In 2016, WBC released an open letter, stating the following: "Eurasia Pacific Boxing Council is not a WBC Federation. It is only a committee affiliated with the WBC, Any request for a new federation or commission to affiliate to the WBC is a matter that must be addressed by the WBC Board of Governors in the annual conventions of the WBC."

Also in 2016 the WBA announces their intention to form the WBA Asia, a new regional body that would displace the WBA affiliate PABA and replace their title with the WBA Asia's WBA Oceania title. I'm not sure if PABA looked to join the WBC for not but in 2016 they announced they would be forming a new world sanctioning body called the World Boxing Society or WBS.

2017, EPBC announced that they will be leaving the WBC to join WBA. The WBA accepts the EPBC and changes its name to WBA Asia along with stripping PABA of their affiliation with the WBA an replacing the regional title with the WBA Oceania title awarded by the new formed WBA Asia. I'm not real sure, because I don't speak any Asian languages, but best I can tell PABA left the WBA before the WBA stripped them of their affiliation so for a short period the WBS was recognized by the WBA as a regional body.

The European Boxing Council just formed this year in 2018. An organization that oversees competition in the sport of Professional Boxing throughout the continent of Europe. The European Boxing Council is both a Governing and Championship Organisation for Professional Boxing within Europe. The regional members of the European Boxing Council are The British & Irish Boxing Authority (BIBA), The Bund Deutscher Faustkämpfer (BDF), The Professional Boxing Association (PBA) The Malta Boxing Commission (MBC), The Lat*vian Professional Box*ing Federation (LPBF) and The Baltic League o*f Martial Arts (BLMA).





Alright kids, this is a good start. I'll edit in the black clubs as I find them. I remember a few but I can't date them. I can tell you you'll get the most information about them out of Kevin Smith's Caramel Colored Kings series but since I have to actually thumb through a pair of books to find them I'll hold off on that and come edit this post at my convenience.

Also, I wrote this in one shot and damn me if it ain't a long sucker. I meant for it to be as short as possible but **** in hell no matter how you cut it, it's a difficult subject to condense. Given it was so damn much typing I didn't proofread it for spelling or grammar. I'll do that as I edit in other bodies, clubs, and laws and ****.

Last note, some of the laws I only mentioned because they're difficult to condense. They're laws though, super easy to look up and read.
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Old 12-29-2018, 11:31 PM #2
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Where do you find this stuff? I assume you didn't write this. Very long read.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:14 AM #3
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Where do you find this stuff? I assume you didn't write this. Very long read.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.
I did a whole lot of typing actually.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


It's the reason I do this sort of nonsense. If there was already one place where you could find all this information then I wouldn't have posted it. I'd just say " Hey fellas this resource is pretty useful" but there isn't one I can cosign like that.

There's Boxrec's and IRBO's pages that cover maybe half of what I have done here and outside of them there ain't much.

That said, I stay clear of the term write. I posted it, I did not write it. Well actually I did write quite a lot of it but also quite a lot if just copied and pasted from Boxrec and IRBO a little CBZ and IBHOF too.

Somethings historians won't touch because it makes them look less authorative and if there is one thing the IBRO absolute hates it is questions whose answers are beyond their members. Like Rough and Tumble. Good luck finding a historian will the cajones to put his name next to any real R&T explanation. I got stuff like that from source material like the NY Clipper.




I plan on adding black clubs and authorities soon....maybe later today if I can get my **** together.

When I do that what I will be doing is going through Richard K Fox's Police Gazette newspapers and Life and Times of Famous Black Pugilists book. Then I will move into Nat Fleischer's Black Diamonds series of books and whatever I can get out of Ring. Finally we will end at Kevin R Smith's Caramel Colored Kings series of books and whatever I can get out of the online sources.

From the source material through the various journalists and the historians I'll gather the footnotes and arrange them into something I feel is readable and explains enough to give the reader some understanding without totally overwhelming them.

I get the whole post is massive, but, each section is meant to be easy to read and understand.

So write...no, not really. Maybe edit is more correct but as far as found....no sir, created.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:39 AM #4
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I did a whole lot of typing actually.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


It's the reason I do this sort of nonsense. If there was already one place where you could find all this information then I wouldn't have posted it. I'd just say " Hey fellas this resource is pretty useful" but there isn't one I can cosign like that.

There's Boxrec's and IRBO's pages that cover maybe half of what I have done here and outside of them there ain't much.

That said, I stay clear of the term write. I posted it, I did not write it. Well actually I did write quite a lot of it but also quite a lot if just copied and pasted from Boxrec and IRBO a little CBZ and IBHOF too.

Somethings historians won't touch because it makes them look less authorative and if there is one thing the IBRO absolute hates it is questions whose answers are beyond their members. Like Rough and Tumble. Good luck finding a historian will the cajones to put his name next to any real R&T explanation. I got stuff like that from source material like the NY Clipper.




I plan on adding black clubs and authorities soon....maybe later today if I can get my **** together.

When I do that what I will be doing is going through Richard K Fox's Police Gazette newspapers and Life and Times of Famous Black Pugilists book. Then I will move into Nat Fleischer's Black Diamonds series of books and whatever I can get out of Ring. Finally we will end at Kevin R Smith's Caramel Colored Kings series of books and whatever I can get out of the online sources.

From the source material through the various journalists and the historians I'll gather the footnotes and arrange them into something I feel is readable and explains enough to give the reader some understanding without totally overwhelming them.

I get the whole post is massive, but, each section is meant to be easy to read and understand.

So write...no, not really. Maybe edit is more correct but as far as found....no sir, created.
Those IBRO guys seem to have dwindled in numbers.
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:28 PM #5
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I did a whole lot of typing actually.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


It's the reason I do this sort of nonsense. If there was already one place where you could find all this information then I wouldn't have posted it. I'd just say " Hey fellas this resource is pretty useful" but there isn't one I can cosign like that.

There's Boxrec's and IRBO's pages that cover maybe half of what I have done here and outside of them there ain't much.

That said, I stay clear of the term write. I posted it, I did not write it. Well actually I did write quite a lot of it but also quite a lot if just copied and pasted from Boxrec and IRBO a little CBZ and IBHOF too.

Somethings historians won't touch because it makes them look less authorative and if there is one thing the IBRO absolute hates it is questions whose answers are beyond their members. Like Rough and Tumble. Good luck finding a historian will the cajones to put his name next to any real R&T explanation. I got stuff like that from source material like the NY Clipper.




I plan on adding black clubs and authorities soon....maybe later today if I can get my **** together.

When I do that what I will be doing is going through Richard K Fox's Police Gazette newspapers and Life and Times of Famous Black Pugilists book. Then I will move into Nat Fleischer's Black Diamonds series of books and whatever I can get out of Ring. Finally we will end at Kevin R Smith's Caramel Colored Kings series of books and whatever I can get out of the online sources.

From the source material through the various journalists and the historians I'll gather the footnotes and arrange them into something I feel is readable and explains enough to give the reader some understanding without totally overwhelming them.

I get the whole post is massive, but, each section is meant to be easy to read and understand.

So write...no, not really. Maybe edit is more correct but as far as found....no sir, created.
Yeah the rough and tumble stuff.... Recreated in "the gangs of New York" lol, as a Northern gangland approach. A lot of those approaches to combat can be traced to ethnic enclaves that came to the New World, the Scott Irish, the Welsh, etc. The Welsh had shin fighting, where two men would formally grab each other and have at it with kicks to the shins... You had of course fighting matches to settle disputes.

ONe thing that makes Rough and Tumble so interesting, and an exception to the general rule, is that most of these practices were designed so that a man was not permanently injured principally so they could keep working. the Sikhs, who had incredible martial arts, fought to settle disputes with iron bracelets. The bracelets could be made to fit as to cause minimum to maximum damage to the opponent. The idea was to injure enough to have a victor but not to cause unnecessary damage. During the Japanese reconstruction the Samurai would often use wooden swords to show a winner with no actual cutting death, though a person could be skull crushed by a wooden weapon.

Rough and Tumble seems to be a unique situational response to combat. One where there was such cynacism and hate, that people really had no desire to protect the combatants. Could this be residual effects of the Un-Civil War in America? A war where there was such hatred, death, mistreatment, lack of resources, that it has universally been regarded as one of the most horrid wars. Perhaps these men coming out of that situation were predisposed to look at personal conflict a certain way.

Duels could of course be as bad. Knife duels are ugly affairs and seldom does one win and walk away. You have to be very well trained with a blade to win one of these and not simply be less mortally injured. People who havew witnessed these affairs speak of coat throats, blood spurts, and usually the win going to the more aggressive contestant.

Last edited by billeau2; 12-31-2018 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 01-01-2019, 07:53 PM #6
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Those IBRO guys seem to have dwindled in numbers.
I haven't had any direct contact with their members for years, well that I know of. But, there is a member here who has shared research with them recently. He knows more about the present IBRO than I would.

I think he goes by escudo here too but I'm not sure.
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Old 01-03-2019, 04:04 AM #7
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Wow. Amazing breakdown of all these groups...that I largely despise & think hurt the sport lol.

Funny with the stuff about the WAA guy who got stripped for divorcing Sean O'Grady's sister.

And I'd never heard of the decade long period of only 4 rd fights in CA. Crazy sh^t.

Also I was unaware there were actual affiliations with so many national bodies with the main ABC groups. I noticed a trend of certain national title holders being ranked by main ABC groups, but didn't realize there was an official connection between them.

Great stuff to read though & see condensed into one stream of consciousness like you did doe.
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Old 01-03-2019, 06:02 AM #8
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Wow! You edumacating me big time... Love (no ****) brother.
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Old 01-03-2019, 10:48 AM #9
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Yeah the rough and tumble stuff.... Recreated in "the gangs of New York" lol, as a Northern gangland approach. A lot of those approaches to combat can be traced to ethnic enclaves that came to the New World, the Scott Irish, the Welsh, etc. The Welsh had shin fighting, where two men would formally grab each other and have at it with kicks to the shins... You had of course fighting matches to settle disputes.

ONe thing that makes Rough and Tumble so interesting, and an exception to the general rule, is that most of these practices were designed so that a man was not permanently injured principally so they could keep working. the Sikhs, who had incredible martial arts, fought to settle disputes with iron bracelets. The bracelets could be made to fit as to cause minimum to maximum damage to the opponent. The idea was to injure enough to have a victor but not to cause unnecessary damage. During the Japanese reconstruction the Samurai would often use wooden swords to show a winner with no actual cutting death, though a person could be skull crushed by a wooden weapon.

Rough and Tumble seems to be a unique situational response to combat. One where there was such cynacism and hate, that people really had no desire to protect the combatants. Could this be residual effects of the Un-Civil War in America? A war where there was such hatred, death, mistreatment, lack of resources, that it has universally been regarded as one of the most horrid wars. Perhaps these men coming out of that situation were predisposed to look at personal conflict a certain way.

Duels could of course be as bad. Knife duels are ugly affairs and seldom does one win and walk away. You have to be very well trained with a blade to win one of these and not simply be less mortally injured. People who havew witnessed these affairs speak of coat throats, blood spurts, and usually the win going to the more aggressive contestant.
It's always super interesting how you relate boxing history to other martial arts.

I searched for sometime for my sources on R&T because I'd really like other people's interpretation on them.

From my understanding everything you've said checks out. The Europeans brought boxing with them. The English, Dutch, Germans and a little bit French controlled the northern eras in America so while the Irish, Scotts, and Welsh had by population more numbers up north their agriculture culture was largely overshadowed by the metropolitan culture. In the south the Irish were really able to flourish off the land and retain quite a lot of their culture.

So while up north you did have boxing and you did have Irish folks doing plenty of it the more dominant form was LPRR. In the south boxing is a local affair. Europe cared a little bit about what was going on in New England but pretty much only ever gawked at the south.

What we call Rough and Tumble today is what Dixie considered boxing back in like 1820. We call it Rough and Tumble because the more famous source on it comes from a European journalist who was trying to differentiate what he was observing from what his readers call boxing back home and used the term to separate it from London Prize Ring.

Because R&T was really just local boxing to deal with local issues you end up with plenty of local variations making an umbrella set of rules damn near impossible without some kind of organizing force, something rough and tumble never got.

As far as the brutality goes, I think that's just a bit of Dixie culture that is hard for the rest of the world to understand. I was born and raised in Dixie. To me reading about the brutality of Dixie's boxing was a par for the course sort of moment. Figures. Slavery is the famous depiction of our brutality, but it is just the famous one not the only. This is the basic MO of Dixie. I understand why the Union fought a "hard war" Dixie is no enemy to take softly.

So, honestly, the Civil War, I feel like is more a symptom of a culture that already existed. I think the Civil happened because these bastards are such brutal ****ers and when it was over they continued to be brutal as hell they just had some new laws to fight while doing it.

I assume, having done no research at all, that the brutality of Dixie stems from the country strong mentality which seems to have always existed. Rural folk see city folk as weaker due to the life style difference. In Dixie it's a bit of a contest....You've heard the phrase "Keeping up with the Joneses"? Well, it's like that except we don't much care for riches as much as stupid **** that doesn't make much sense unless you exalt pulling through a hardship to an absurd amount.

Imagine Bubba and Cletus are arguing. Bubba reckons he got himself deeper into the earth because he used a gem mine, Cletus reckon he went deeper because he went into a bedrock quarry. They argue and argue and argue until a third party they both respect claims a certain type of mineral can be found at a certain depth but he doubts either boy can actually reach it. Cletus and Bubba set-to and end up a couple of dead sons of *****es in caves somewhere in Dixie.

That's just life in the Smokies. Bragging leads to arguing which often leads to doing really stupid and dangerous **** being exalted by the community rather than demonized.

I don't feel like the War caused the brutality in Dixie but I do feel like it did elongate it. Ironically the Civil War era itself would see some of American Bare Knuckle's more respectable sorts.

Prior to the Civil, in the 1830s and such, you had guys like Sam O'Rouke and Deaf Burke showing America what boxing is like in Europe.

In the 1850s you'll see some of the worst criminals in boxing history, Yankee Sullivan and Tom Hyer kick us off but those guys are just boxers who do a bit of side illegals. I think Yankee stole in his youth but really they're just boxer/gambler men. Then you get Poole and Morrissey on the scene..

Sullivan, in one of my favorites of his stories, was set to fight John Morrissey. Problem was Yankee had to lose. Morrissey's men were ringside and brandishing weapons. They did not even need to hide what would happen if Yankee won. How does Sullivan retain his respect and eat this fix? He beats John into a bloody pulp and leaves him helpless on the floor while the pistol men ready their weapons and the ref begins his count Yankee walks out forcing the ref to call time on Sullivan.
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Bet that win felt real real good for the senator.

Bill Poole had a similar gang who conducted themselves similarly. Bill would ended up murdered by gang members.

Then it's the 1860s and like magic or something boxing in America is onto some respectable ****.

Heenan and Sayers fought to a draw both the US and UK could agree on. Joe Coburn showed the world some valiant virtues of boxing.

1865 brings in Jimmy Elliot who was famous for being a hot head who got into all sorts of trouble. He'd go to jail several time in his career which if memory is correct is the reason he was eventually stripped.

by the 1870s cooler heads and respectable forms are the rage with Jem Mace and the culture he brought around the world.

I don't know as much as I should about the Civil War, but, I reckon boxing was one step ahead the whole time. Similar to Mendoza and Jewish relations in Europe. Or Gains/Johnson and the Civil Rights Movement.
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Old 01-03-2019, 01:16 PM #10
billeau2 billeau2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Marchegiano View Post
It's always super interesting how you relate boxing history to other martial arts.

I searched for sometime for my sources on R&T because I'd really like other people's interpretation on them.

From my understanding everything you've said checks out. The Europeans brought boxing with them. The English, Dutch, Germans and a little bit French controlled the northern eras in America so while the Irish, Scotts, and Welsh had by population more numbers up north their agriculture culture was largely overshadowed by the metropolitan culture. In the south the Irish were really able to flourish off the land and retain quite a lot of their culture.

So while up north you did have boxing and you did have Irish folks doing plenty of it the more dominant form was LPRR. In the south boxing is a local affair. Europe cared a little bit about what was going on in New England but pretty much only ever gawked at the south.

What we call Rough and Tumble today is what Dixie considered boxing back in like 1820. We call it Rough and Tumble because the more famous source on it comes from a European journalist who was trying to differentiate what he was observing from what his readers call boxing back home and used the term to separate it from London Prize Ring.

Because R&T was really just local boxing to deal with local issues you end up with plenty of local variations making an umbrella set of rules damn near impossible without some kind of organizing force, something rough and tumble never got.

As far as the brutality goes, I think that's just a bit of Dixie culture that is hard for the rest of the world to understand. I was born and raised in Dixie. To me reading about the brutality of Dixie's boxing was a par for the course sort of moment. Figures. Slavery is the famous depiction of our brutality, but it is just the famous one not the only. This is the basic MO of Dixie. I understand why the Union fought a "hard war" Dixie is no enemy to take softly.

So, honestly, the Civil War, I feel like is more a symptom of a culture that already existed. I think the Civil happened because these bastards are such brutal ****ers and when it was over they continued to be brutal as hell they just had some new laws to fight while doing it.

I assume, having done no research at all, that the brutality of Dixie stems from the country strong mentality which seems to have always existed. Rural folk see city folk as weaker due to the life style difference. In Dixie it's a bit of a contest....You've heard the phrase "Keeping up with the Joneses"? Well, it's like that except we don't much care for riches as much as stupid **** that doesn't make much sense unless you exalt pulling through a hardship to an absurd amount.

Imagine Bubba and Cletus are arguing. Bubba reckons he got himself deeper into the earth because he used a gem mine, Cletus reckon he went deeper because he went into a bedrock quarry. They argue and argue and argue until a third party they both respect claims a certain type of mineral can be found at a certain depth but he doubts either boy can actually reach it. Cletus and Bubba set-to and end up a couple of dead sons of *****es in caves somewhere in Dixie.

That's just life in the Smokies. Bragging leads to arguing which often leads to doing really stupid and dangerous **** being exalted by the community rather than demonized.

I don't feel like the War caused the brutality in Dixie but I do feel like it did elongate it. Ironically the Civil War era itself would see some of American Bare Knuckle's more respectable sorts.

Prior to the Civil, in the 1830s and such, you had guys like Sam O'Rouke and Deaf Burke showing America what boxing is like in Europe.

In the 1850s you'll see some of the worst criminals in boxing history, Yankee Sullivan and Tom Hyer kick us off but those guys are just boxers who do a bit of side illegals. I think Yankee stole in his youth but really they're just boxer/gambler men. Then you get Poole and Morrissey on the scene..

Sullivan, in one of my favorites of his stories, was set to fight John Morrissey. Problem was Yankee had to lose. Morrissey's men were ringside and brandishing weapons. They did not even need to hide what would happen if Yankee won. How does Sullivan retain his respect and eat this fix? He beats John into a bloody pulp and leaves him helpless on the floor while the pistol men ready their weapons and the ref begins his count Yankee walks out forcing the ref to call time on Sullivan.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.
Bet that win felt real real good for the senator.

Bill Poole had a similar gang who conducted themselves similarly. Bill would ended up murdered by gang members.

Then it's the 1860s and like magic or something boxing in America is onto some respectable ****.

Heenan and Sayers fought to a draw both the US and UK could agree on. Joe Coburn showed the world some valiant virtues of boxing.

1865 brings in Jimmy Elliot who was famous for being a hot head who got into all sorts of trouble. He'd go to jail several time in his career which if memory is correct is the reason he was eventually stripped.

by the 1870s cooler heads and respectable forms are the rage with Jem Mace and the culture he brought around the world.

I don't know as much as I should about the Civil War, but, I reckon boxing was one step ahead the whole time. Similar to Mendoza and Jewish relations in Europe. Or Gains/Johnson and the Civil Rights Movement.

The Bold: excellent observations. Rough fighting has a few shall we say calling cards? Very rural areas in general, even to this day are simply more socially and economically repressed. Its mind boggling that in Baltimore City you actually have areas, pockets in the city with higher AIDs rates than Sub Sahara Africa, but its not the norm for cities. The norm is San Francisco where you have education and awareness.

If you go to small towns in Maryland, places off the Eastern Shore that are not moneyed for example, and...I would wager also in you neck of the woods, Florida in rural areas one will see real poverty on a scale that it does not exist in cities. Poverty and ignorance will breed brutality... We see this over and over. I have a gun that my wife's great grandfather used to kill 3 men, while himself dying of a gunshot during a feud. These feuds would be settled at the election booths in rural Louisiana... That was the recourse. Already by that time even the Wild West was being tamed!

Another particularly colorful area for the arts is Port cities because they attract many different fighting types. So, another boxing strain you might want to look at is French Savate which came to us via the rough and tumble city of Marse' France! This was a place where people came to blows about how to make the best Boulliabase! But Savate was an ingenious art where whip kicks and basic boxing blows were used with a minumum of head movement. Boots were often an augmentation for these blows. Savate was France's answer to her Anglo Saxon neighbors methods of fighting.

New Orleans probably had Capoeristas coming in from the Slave trade, an art which evolved in the cities of Brazil. Same MO... The original art, which one can research through information on the late Maestro Bimba, was a street fighting art, similar to rough and tumble in some respects. Everything from hiding razors in the toes and fingers, to using the body with maximum launch capability was used in the original art.

There are some arts that have been recreated including many involving the quarter staff, and many taking fencing styles and adapting them to the use of closer quarter tactics and weapons. The Bowie was made with that augmentation in mind.

Finally another big art that was present throughout all the Americas was folk wrestling: Catch Can, Lankishire, etc... these wrestling styles could involve blows as well... And They could incorporate even Ju Jutsu stuff the Portegeuse got from trading with the Japanese NOTE on this point: I actually have Japanese Sword manuels that incorporate Euro stabbing techniques learned from the Portuguese as well.

I guess the lesson here is that all these arts borrow from each other and adapt when they are used for combat purposes to the environment in which they are utilised. Sorry about the spelling, just wanted to get this out to you before I have to start the day here! Love your posts M!!
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