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Old 10-22-2019, 12:04 AM #31
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So I guess Aaron Pryor could be the answer to my wasted talent question for who was most talented when wasted.
Less talent wasted than Anorak.
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Old 10-22-2019, 06:12 AM #32
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So I guess Aaron Pryor could be the answer to my wasted talent question for who was most talented when wasted.
What did he waste, though?

I am a big fan of the Jr. Ww division. The jump from Lw to Ww is too big. With all the talent that has surfaced over the generations at or around that weight, it's like the lost continent of Atlantis as far as Boxing divisions go

But in the case of Pryor, it was clearly a safe-haven. He was "friends" with Duran, and everyone else at 135 was dodging him. So he moved to a fairly dead 140 pound weight class.
And fights at 147 never materialized because Hearns and Leonard, whom he had bullied when they were just teenagers in the Ammies, were apparently afraid of him.

I don't doubt that many fighters avoided Pryor. I really think that even the guys who could beat him saw him as more trouble than he was worth. But Pryor's claims seldom hold up when tested for veracity.

What more do you think he could have done? How much longer do you think he could have continued with that style?

If you want to say that he could have managed his career better and pulled off something similar to Arguello or Mayweather, then I would agree. But that was never him.

And frankly, he just wasn't that good. He came of age at the perfect time. He shared the ring w/ Davis Jr., Leonard, Hearns, Duran... if he had it in him to learn how to Box, it wouldhave surfaced. Look what Cus D'Amato did w/ Pryor's contemporary, Tyson, in a ridiculously short amount of time. Look at how the unbecoming slob Buster Douglas unwound that.
I'm not saying his personal life didn't derail him. But even without the distractions and pit-falls, I really wonder what more people expected from him after the Arguello fights. Pryor had reached his ceiling and was running on fumes.

In the words of my grandparents from Old Virginnie, "that dog just won't hunt".

That's not to say that Pryor wasn't lethal. Head to Head, at his best, he was a nightmare for even the best men to lace up gloves. But his skillset was limited, and the shelf-life very short.

I really think there's a better argument that Gomez was a wasted talent. His personal life became a disaster. But again, a lot of his set backs were self-inflicted: he fell in love w/ his power, and abandoned his greatest asset (footwork) at the worst possible time (against bigger, insanely resilient men). Even Bobby Kennedy would criticize that misstep.

In both cases, the personal life going off the tracks was also a sign of the unraveling that is unnatural when a person (especially a "kid") pushes his body waaay too far. The asceticism and brain trauma are like a constantly tightening vice.
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Old 10-26-2019, 05:19 AM #33
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Who do you believe was the better fighter? Wilfredo Gomez was a champion at Super Bantam, Feather and Supefeatherweight. He was a massive puncher with good lateral movement a decent body attack, but could be lethargic sometimes (see fight with Azumah Nelson). Alexis Arguello was a champ at Feather, Super Feather and Lightweight (the first 3 weight world champ.
Who do you think had the better resume?
at super bantaam Gomez was incredible, but he was too balls first and fought everyone head to head, even bigger guys. Took a lot of damage and was worn out at a pretty young age but kept fighting.

Gomez at SBW was easily just as good as Arguello at FW, difference being that Arguello was smarter and went on to have a better career.
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Old 10-26-2019, 07:57 AM #34
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Anyone ever wonder if these two were the inspiration for Bert and Earnie? Definitely they were the inspiration for Mario and Luigi. I dunno how much Nintendo has had to pay out for that. Probably makes their ring-earnings look like pocket change.
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Old 10-26-2019, 10:44 AM #35
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Like almost every other discussion you're involved with, this has become about you digging in your heels and trying to make things true because you want to believe them.

Castillo would fight a FEATHERweight not known for his power. While Mancini would hold a piece of the Lightweight title. His quick KO of Chacon is one of his career highlights.

Who amongst Arguello's opponents at 130 was as good as Watt?

He seems to coast in the final rounds against Watt. There's different explanations for that: 1) didn;t wanna add insult to injury in the man's own house; 2) too much of a gentleman; 3) it was a foreshadowing of what was to come against Pryor - he took off when he knew he had a fight won. amybe there's an interview where he explains the decision?






Arguello managed his career (and life) waaaaaaay better. Way better. Did I happen to mention Arguello managed things better?

Guys like Arguello and Michael Spinks lead to the even more generous weigh-in periods, though.

Wrestlers are to blame. I take full accountability. But Boxing began to cash in on it based on the multi-division success of guys like Spinks and Arguello.

can you imagine if they came of age in earlier generations? Some many Heavyweights would have had their way w/ Spinks. Can you imagine arguello building up a ridiculous record if he were thrown in there w/ a true Lightweight great? Ross, McLarnin, Williams, Ortiz, Armstrong, Angott: which one do you see him beating?

What champion Michael's size do you see him beating? Maybe Charles and Ingo?
Who could Spinks beat?? John Ruiz comes to mind. The version of Joe Louis that fought Marciano. I'd give him a good chance to beat Jack Dempsey just to stir the pot a little bit.
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Old 10-26-2019, 03:52 PM #36
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Who could Spinks beat?? John Ruiz comes to mind. The version of Joe Louis that fought Marciano. I'd give him a good chance to beat Jack Dempsey just to stir the pot a little bit.
I'm sure he could give a faded Dempsey problems. He would have carried a significant size advantage into the ring.

But the guy who smoked Wills makes Spinks look no better than some nobody from the Hobo camp.
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Old 10-26-2019, 04:10 PM #37
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I'm sure he could give a faded Dempsey problems. He would have carried a significant size advantage into the ring.

But the guy who smoked Wills makes Spinks look no better than some nobody from the Hobo camp.
OK if you say so.. I think you might be exaggerating a wee bit.. LOL
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Old 10-26-2019, 11:56 PM #38
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
I'm sure he could give a faded Dempsey problems. He would have carried a significant size advantage into the ring.

But the guy who smoked Wills makes Spinks look no better than some nobody from the Hobo camp.
what are you even saying lol. Spinks barely Broke 200 and he was eating as much as he could. dempsey was skipping meals and running for miles every day in boots up and down hills.
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Old 10-27-2019, 12:25 AM #39
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what are you even saying lol. Spinks barely Broke 200 and he was eating as much as he could. dempsey was skipping meals and running for miles every day in boots up and down hills.
Was Dempsey even 190 pounds for the Willard fight? Spinks was 210 for the Cooney fight.

We're talking at least a 20 pound spread. I recall Spinks being slightly taller/longer reach, though I am sure not by much.

Never the less, he's the bigger man. And that won't mean much against prime Jack.
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Old 10-27-2019, 11:39 PM #40
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Was Dempsey even 190 pounds for the Willard fight? Spinks was 210 for the Cooney fight.

We're talking at least a 20 pound spread. I recall Spinks being slightly taller/longer reach, though I am sure not by much.

Never the less, he's the bigger man. And that won't mean much against prime Jack.
is dempsey ate as much as spinks was at heavy he would easily be the same weight. all you gotta do is look at them retired standing besides newer boxers. more weight doesnt mean bigger, your frame dictates how well you carry weight. the fact is spinks was 175 at one point, considerably lighter than dempsey. just cause he eats and lifts weights to make hW doesn't mean hes bigger.
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