Joe Louis vs Archie Moore

[Rusty Tromboni]

I wanna know Rusty Trollboni's take on this match-up!!

You're adorable.

the cutest thing about you is that there's a rumor you actually do know something about Boxing, and someday might even have something meaningful to share.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Shouldn't you be taking a hard line against some of the shenanigans going on around here lately?

The History section used to be the one section of BoxingScene where people could have a civil discussion.

Hahahaha! That's the p*ssiest shyt I've seen in a long time. Cry to teacher everytime the boys pull your ponytails, huh?

Look, sweetie, I am not your mom. And no matter how much you want me to be, I am not your daddy, either.

My humor might rub some people the wrong way. But lots of people like it. The truth is, it's largely used to shuffle off those who have nothing meaningful to contribute, or who are spoiling meaningful discussions with their stupidity/agendas/emotional baggage. If that's you (hint, hint), maybe you would be happier somewhere else?

There are people on this forum who actually have meaningful things to discuss. I enjoy their company very much. If you wish to become one of them, you'll also be welcomed. But healthy discussion can be muted by pedantic hangers-on. Maybe if you don't wanna get bit by the mean dog at the gate, you shouldn't go trespassing?

[ShoulderRoll]

Hahahaha! That's the p*ssiest shyt I've seen in a long time. Cry to teacher everytime the boys pull your ponytails, huh?

Look, sweetie, I am not your mom. And no matter how much you want me to be, I am not your daddy, either.

My humor might rub some people the wrong way. But lots of people like it. The truth is, it's largely used to shuffle off those who have nothing meaningful to contribute, or who are spoiling meaningful discussions with their stupidity/agendas/emotional baggage. If that's you (hint, hint), maybe you would be happier somewhere else?

There are people on this forum who actually have meaningful things to discuss. I enjoy their company very much. If you wish to become one of them, you'll also be welcomed. But healthy discussion can be muted by pedantic hangers-on. Maybe if you don't wanna get bit by the mean dog at the gate, you shouldn't go trespassing?

The History section has usually been kept free of your type of childishness. I'd like to see it remain that way.

BattlingNelson

[Rusty Tromboni]

The History section has usually been kept free of your type of childishness. I'd like to see it remain that way.

BattlingNelson

I'm sorry to have upset you. I don't really think your an idiot. You're a strong, intelligent, independent poster... who don't need no man to tell her what to think.


Do you want to hold hands, now?

[BattlingNelson]

The History section has usually been kept free of your type of childishness. I'd like to see it remain that way.

BattlingNelson

Trollboni is on vacation again.

[ShoulderRoll]

Trollboni is on vacation again.

If he wants to roll around in the mud we can do that on NSB. It would be nice to keep a more civil atmosphere here.

[just the facts]

Back to the thread. Moore was an extremely gifted fighter but was Louis. Moore has his moments but Louis talent and power lead to him stopping Moore between 8 and 12.

[QueensburyRules]

Back to the thread. Moore was an extremely gifted fighter but was Louis. Moore has his moments but Louis talent and power lead to him stopping Moore between 8 and 12.

- -Keeping in mind Joes last pro fight was 51 before Arch began his all time march to immortality.

Agreed a mid 50s Arch could pose a major threat had Joe hung around, but he didn't, end of.

[DeeMoney]

I think there is a better way to phrase this hypothetical question: assume Archie Moore reached his heavyweight size that he was in his early 40s while still younger and fresher fighter- say mid 20s. How would this mythical Moore do against pre WWII Louis?

I still give the nod to Louis. Louis is bigger, and a bigger puncher. I could see Luis getting clipped and hitting the canvas, as he was prone to do, but dusting it off and stalking down the smaller man.

[billeau2]

Louis got hit occasionally and was not a fighter prone to making adjustments... I believe that if he had been so, he would have found a way to beat Smelling the first time. As a matter of fact, I hold a minority opinion that when people comment of Louis' foot speed, they are really remarking on a man who had the confidence to know that in a 15 round contest, he would find you...he didn't need to step to you, cut the ring off incessently, etc.

Like a nevada flim flam slot machine, you could win now and then, but the numbers never lied; The house had the odds. People still do not truly understand the greatness of Louis. How he was coached to use punches at a select range, and how he defended that title so many times...using every round, every punch with the knowledge that in that 15 round period he would get the chances he needed to connect with those shots.

Louis being a simple man of few words never conveyed the technical precision of a man who was precise and calibrated in his approach.

Moore by comparison was a trickster with the same level of technical expertise as Louis by all accounts. My first question here would be: why did archie lose 3 contests to Charley Burley? While Burley was not a puncher, he was a technical fighter who dominated Moore. How?

So here is what I figure: At some level guys like Moore, Toney, even Mayweather depend a lot on counter punching. Problem is, a very technically accomplished punch, with no telegraph, with speed is hard to counter. Which is probably why Burley beat Moore up (Moore's description). Toney shows us what happens when you set up a counter against a guy who is just too fast (JOnes fight). And remember how Oscar's jab was troubling Floyd? Jabs are very hard to counter.

So to me, Moore might fight a guy like Marciano and counter him for a while...Moore was dong well in that fight, and got tired and could not deal with Marciano's will to impose himself. But not Louis... Too fast, and too precise to counter, also? too combination oriented. It was never a punch with Louis, it was combinations.

Louis has the confidance, power and precision to make it rough on any version of Moore. Much like with Marciano (though for very different reasons) Moore gets hit and takes it well...for a while, and then Louis finds him and catches him trying to counter off the back leg...Louis can use the hook to find Archie off a semi circle retreat and can throw it as part of a combination and that is what would do Moore in for the KO IMO.

Which is to say