Originally posted by Bjl12
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I'm no expert on Ishida. I don't follow most low level guys.
Kirkland is also a low level guy.
It was also the weight. Khan was moving up 8 pounds to Brook's 13. GGG had always been a MW, was undefeated, and looked immortal at the time (albeit with lower level opposition).
Nonetheless Canelo and Golovkin were strong favorites.
I'm not going to look back at indivudal quotes. Most people acknowledge moving up/down 1-2 weight classes against "the guy" in the division can be a dangerous career move.
Chad Dawson got ruined by Andre Ward (LHW to SMW)
Pavlik got ruined by BHop (MW to SMW)
Hatton got ruined by Floyd (JWW to WW)
DLH got ruined by Manny (JMW to WW)
Rigo got ruined by Loma (JFW to FW)
When you move up/down 1 weight class to fight "the guy" it is a testament of character and confidence. However, with great reward comes great risk. And in all of the above scenarios the loser experienced significant changes in their career for the worse.
Kell Brook jumped to MW (moved up 2 weight classes) for GGG and lost in bad fashion, but not ruined.
Dropped back to 147 (dropping 2 weight classes) to fight Errald Spencer. Again - that fight was 4-4 after 8 rounds. When you move up and down weight classes..your stamina takes a hit. Kell gassed and Errald jumped on him.
I don't think either of those fights individually ruined Kell, but the two combined took a lot out of him. Mostly his confidence if you ask me. Back to back losses, back to back stoppages, back to back reconstructive surgery...and he was in both fights for as long as they went.
Brook was a boss.
Ya styles make fights. Who knows?
We disagree. Canelo fighting at MW was his 3rd weight class. He drew in the 1st fight and won in the 2nd fight.
Canelo legitimately fought at 155 for years and was considered "the guy" at JMW. When "B" side GGG called him out and refused to go down 1 pound...I thought to myself "he doesn't really want the fight".
And GGG didn't. He was on record refusing catchweights any time it could hurt him (refused Cotto, Canelo, and Brook), but was for catchweights against when it could benefit him (Andre Ward at 164...even though he would fight Froch or JCC Jr at 168).
GGG is a prima donna. Some people just don't see things for what they are.
In all of our discussions I've had to correct you with objective information.
You said GGG landed more punches and had better defense.
Compubox from both fights shows GGG threw 200+ more punches and landed less power punches in BOTH fights. GGG did land more jabs.
That's objective and measurable.
You said that Canelo's win over Khan was "expected" and that "nobody expected GGG to break Brook's face". In reality GGG was a larger favorite to beat Brook (BY KO/TKO) than Canelo was over Khan.
Again - that's objective.
I've twisted nothing. I just don't have a Muslin Asian-European dick in my ass
Kirkland is also a low level guy.
It was also the weight. Khan was moving up 8 pounds to Brook's 13. GGG had always been a MW, was undefeated, and looked immortal at the time (albeit with lower level opposition).
Nonetheless Canelo and Golovkin were strong favorites.
I'm not going to look back at indivudal quotes. Most people acknowledge moving up/down 1-2 weight classes against "the guy" in the division can be a dangerous career move.
Chad Dawson got ruined by Andre Ward (LHW to SMW)
Pavlik got ruined by BHop (MW to SMW)
Hatton got ruined by Floyd (JWW to WW)
DLH got ruined by Manny (JMW to WW)
Rigo got ruined by Loma (JFW to FW)
When you move up/down 1 weight class to fight "the guy" it is a testament of character and confidence. However, with great reward comes great risk. And in all of the above scenarios the loser experienced significant changes in their career for the worse.
Kell Brook jumped to MW (moved up 2 weight classes) for GGG and lost in bad fashion, but not ruined.
Dropped back to 147 (dropping 2 weight classes) to fight Errald Spencer. Again - that fight was 4-4 after 8 rounds. When you move up and down weight classes..your stamina takes a hit. Kell gassed and Errald jumped on him.
I don't think either of those fights individually ruined Kell, but the two combined took a lot out of him. Mostly his confidence if you ask me. Back to back losses, back to back stoppages, back to back reconstructive surgery...and he was in both fights for as long as they went.
Brook was a boss.
Ya styles make fights. Who knows?
We disagree. Canelo fighting at MW was his 3rd weight class. He drew in the 1st fight and won in the 2nd fight.
Canelo legitimately fought at 155 for years and was considered "the guy" at JMW. When "B" side GGG called him out and refused to go down 1 pound...I thought to myself "he doesn't really want the fight".
And GGG didn't. He was on record refusing catchweights any time it could hurt him (refused Cotto, Canelo, and Brook), but was for catchweights against when it could benefit him (Andre Ward at 164...even though he would fight Froch or JCC Jr at 168).
GGG is a prima donna. Some people just don't see things for what they are.
In all of our discussions I've had to correct you with objective information.
You said GGG landed more punches and had better defense.
Compubox from both fights shows GGG threw 200+ more punches and landed less power punches in BOTH fights. GGG did land more jabs.
That's objective and measurable.
You said that Canelo's win over Khan was "expected" and that "nobody expected GGG to break Brook's face". In reality GGG was a larger favorite to beat Brook (BY KO/TKO) than Canelo was over Khan.
Again - that's objective.
I've twisted nothing. I just don't have a Muslin Asian-European dick in my ass
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