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Old 02-11-2020, 01:28 PM #301
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Thanks...I think saying 'GGG wasn't what he was made out to be by some' is a fair argument...you could make that for any fighter though really...but it is a fair one.

I think that to really have a firm opinion on him you have to factor in those 2 Canelo fights and how you viewed/scored them though...I thought he would be a bit better in each fight, but at the same time, I still thought he won both quite cleanly...mainly because of his activity...his stamina/workrate just make him a tough fight for Canelo who tends to fight in spurts...my 2 cents anyway.

OK I disagree about the Ward-Kov fight but thanks for responding.
i was never impressed with GGG to be honest, some call it hate but people have to realize how many great middleweights have graced the ring. Also ive watched thousands of fights live and study the sport daily, i train, coach and i box myself


Hagler, Monzon, Robinson, James Toney, etc....talent wise i never saw that type of talent or skills from GGG and when he stepped up competition his fights became a lot more competitive than when he fought fringe guys.....his best opponents are Canelo, Jacobs and Sergiy Derevyanchenko....brook is a good fighter but very small for 160....his run was simply not impressive because ive seen so many great fighters prove it in the ring and accomplish more with better skills
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:46 PM #302
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i said very good fighter with power....is he an all time great...no.....is he skilled yes, he is a former olympian with 100s of fights but is it on the level of former p4p middleweight entrants like a prime Hagler, Michael Nunn, James, Toney, Hopkins? No, he is well schooled but basic and not hard to hit

is he a hall of famer? nope, resume is weak and reputation is based off knocking out fringe contenders....every top middleweight he has fought has been a toss up type fight except lemieux who really is a lower top ten guy


not really elite? you do know kalambay defeated Mike McCallum an all time great and hall of famer, perennial contender Herol Graham 2x, steve collins, iran barkley, contender robbie sims, champions buster drayton and doug dewitt

Michael Nunn won titles at 160 and 168 and fought for one at 175 defeated Marlon Starling, Gold Medallist frank tate, Juan Roldan, Donald Curry, Victor Cordoba twice


these dudes clearly beat better fighters and accomplished more than GGG to less fan fare

its save to say i was not impressed considering his level of competition in respect to the hype he had, and on the contrary, it seems you just started following the sport recently yourself
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i was never impressed with GGG to be honest, some call it hate but people have to realize how many great middleweights have graced the ring. Also ive watched thousands of fights live and study the sport daily, i train, coach and i box myself


Hagler, Monzon, Robinson, James Toney, etc....talent wise i never saw that type of talent or skills from GGG and when he stepped up competition his fights became a lot more competitive than when he fought fringe guys.....his best opponents are Canelo, Jacobs and Sergiy Derevyanchenko....brook is a good fighter but very small for 160....his run was simply not impressive because ive seen so many great fighters prove it in the ring and accomplish more with better skills
Oh I disagree my friend...I think he is an ATG at MW and a HOFer for sure...he is a former silver Olympic medalist at MW btw, and an ATG amateur really...just had an incredible resume there as well.

If he wasn't that hard to hit...he would have more losses/KDs etc...so I again just don't really buy that line of critique.

Not sure why you said 'not really elite?' btw...I said those guys had some good wins...going 12 with McCallum in your own backyard and winning a decision is a good win...but I mean it's not like he KOed McCallum or beat him in a neutral site.

And I said they had some close fights/losses against pedestrian opposition...GGG never did...Hagler lost twice to journeymen...Sumbu lost at home to Kalule...he also fought most of his fights at home...if GGG was getting decisions at home in Kazhakstan I would view him similarly...all I can say really.

I mean look at those guys you give Sumbu credit for beating man...Graham and Barkley were good...and he beat them by decision, one at home...the other guys, I mean come on man...how can you big up those guys and slight who GGG was beating...just wild imo.

So now we are big upping Robbie Sims and Buster Drayton and Doug Dewitt? I mean come on dude...not to mention that the game has changed...and many of those fighters from back then look like amateurs...but even just based on rating guys based on their run in their era, GGG's stacks up very well to anyone's.

With Nunn...we again were comparing their runs at MW...not in all classes...and in any event, you are big upping guys/split decisions over Starling/Cordoba/Curry/Tate and even Roldan like GGG wouldn't have rolled through all of those guys...and like they weren't at the same level more or less as many of the guys GGG ran through...some probably even on the lower end than what GGG faced.

So yeah I don't really see the angle at all that those guys beat better guys than GGG did...they beat some good guys, had some closer fights than GGG against solid pros too...and GGG ran through all of those guys and had more fights against those level guys too (somewhat due to GGG fighting exclusively at MW...the other guys were often fighting at different weights throughout their career).

I think you have some rose-colored glasses on with some of those past fighters...you seem to be holding some sort of a grudge there towards GGG and for them which distorts your view, imho...I would also add that to give some of those past guys credit for close debatable wins over solid pros.

But to then try and say GGG had close fights (just because he went 12) with Jacobs Canelo Canelo and SD and should be judged negatively for that...kind of throws your credibility out the window a bit...not to mention that anyone who really knows the sport and is impartial...the only close fight(s) GGG has ever really had was vs SD (which I could see someone getting to 7 rounds for Sergei) and then vs Ouma it was very tight before GGG stopped him.

If people want to get on him for those 2 fights, that's fine...but I mean we all saw him beat Canelo twice...if we are keeping it real that is...and Danny won 4 rounds in that fight, but we shouldn't really give extra credit just because a guy does better than expected...you still have to score GGG's work in those fights as well.

Again I don't really see the logic in big upping some of those past fighters, and even big upping some of their wins...while getting on GGG for steamrolling through a lot of fighters of similar level as those guys...when those guys were getting MD SD or UD against those guys, often times at home...you also overlook some losses those guys had to just solid pros, where again GGG ran through all the 15 or so guys like that that he faced.

And then to not give GGG credit for his performances vs Canelo Canelo Jacobs and SD, as a whole, but again big up someone like Hagler who got embarrassed by SRL and basically drew with Duran...and had 2 bad losses...to go along with his great win over Tommy and a good win over Mugabi...but otherwise, I mean how can you even big up his stuff other than that...and he has some bad negatives that GGG does not.

But yeah saying Nunn's run, in particular, was as good at GGG at MW is just wild imo...and Sumbu had some good decision wins, at home usually, and then also a bad loss, at home.

In any event, good chat...I think you're a bit mistaken on some of this stuff but we are all entitled to an opinion and I thank you for sharing some of yours.

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Old 02-11-2020, 03:07 PM #303
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Oh I disagree my friend...I think he is an ATG at MW and a HOFer for sure...he is a former silver Olympic medalist at MW btw, and an ATG amateur really...just had an incredible resume there as well.

If he wasn't that hard to hit...he would have more losses/KDs etc...so I again just don't really buy that line of critique.

Not sure why you said 'not really elite?' btw...I said those guys had some good wins...going 12 with McCallum in your own backyard and winning a decision is a good win...but I mean it's not like he KOed McCallum or beat him in a neutral site.

And I said they had some close fights/losses against pedestrian opposition...GGG never did...Hagler lost twice to journeymen...Sumbu lost at home to Kalule...he also fought most of his fights at home...if GGG was getting decisions at home in Kazhakstan I would view him similarly...all I can say really.

I mean look at those guys you give Sumbu credit for beating man...Graham and Barkley were good...and he beat them by decision, one at home...the other guys, I mean come on man...how can you big up those guys and slight who GGG was beating...just wild imo.

So now we are big upping Robbie Sims and Buster Drayton and Doug Dewitt? I mean come on dude...not to mention that the game has changed...and many of those fighters from back then look like amateurs...but even just based on rating guys based on their run in their era, GGG's stacks up very well to anyone's.

With Nunn...we again were comparing their runs at MW...not in all classes...and in any event, you are big upping guys/split decisions over Starling/Cordoba/Curry/Tate and even Roldan like GGG wouldn't have rolled through all of those guys...and like they weren't at the same level more or less as many of the guys GGG ran through...some probably even on the lower end than what GGG faced.

So yeah I don't really see the angle at all that those guys beat better guys than GGG did...they beat some good guys, had some closer fights than GGG against solid pros too...and GGG ran through all of those guys and had more fights against those level guys too (somewhat due to GGG fighting exclusively at MW...the other guys were often fighting at different weights throughout their career).

I think you have some rose-colored glasses on with some of those past fighters...you seem to be holding some sort of a grudge there towards GGG and for them which distorts your view, imho...I would also add that to give some of those past guys credit for close debatable wins over solid pros.

But to then try and say GGG had close fights (just because he went 12) with Jacobs Canelo Canelo and SD and should be judged negatively for that...kind of throws your credibility out the window a bit...not to mention that anyone who really knows the sport and is impartial...the only close fight(s) GGG has ever really had was vs SD (which I could see someone getting to 7 rounds for Sergei) and then vs Ouma it was very tight before GGG stopped him.

If people want to get on him for those 2 fights, that's fine...but I mean we all saw him beat Canelo twice...if we are keeping it real that is...and Danny won 4 rounds in that fight, but we shouldn't really give extra credit just because a guy does better than expected...you still have to score GGG's work in those fights as well.

Again I don't really see the logic in big upping some of those past fighters, and even big upping some of their wins...while getting on GGG for steamrolling through a lot of fighters of similar level as those guys...when those guys were getting MD SD or UD against those guys, often times at home...you also overlook some losses those guys had to just solid pros, where again GGG ran through all the 15 or so guys like that that he faced.

And then to not give GGG credit for his performances vs Canelo Canelo Jacobs and SD, as a whole, but again big up someone like Hagler who got embarrassed by SRL and basically drew with Duran...and had 2 bad losses...to go along with his great win over Tommy and a good win over Mugabi...but otherwise, I mean how can you even big up his stuff other than that...and he has some bad negatives that GGG does not.

But yeah saying Nunn's run, in particular, was as good at GGG at MW is just wild imo...and Sumbu had some good decision wins, at home usually, and then also a bad loss, at home.

In any event, good chat...I think you're a bit mistaken on some of this stuff but we are all entitled to an opinion and I thank you for sharing some of yours.
an all time great based off what honestly i stopped reading there, no need for a essay


all time great means he could compete in any era...how? every top middleweight he fought he barely beat...He hasnt beat anyone great, p4p entrant, his so called title defenses were against people many hard core fans struggle to recognize, youre pretty easily impressed or simply have a style preference


he was elevated by the wba, didnt win in ring.......wbc was handed to him and he did earn the ibf vs Lemieux



his defenses are mostly regular wba defenses when their was a super champion so the whole 17 defenses is bs


dude does not have a hall of fame resume no matter how you slice it.....his resume is too weak


Robinson, Monzon, Harry Greb, Hopkins, are all time great middleweights......GGG.....NAW
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:11 PM #304
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Yeah he's almost at the end of his career. There are only a couple of years left to enjoy him. Your time is running out to come to your senses. However sadly you have to endure many more years of coming to Canelo's defense when people increasingly point out his numerous shortcomings. Good luck on that..
How ironic that a ggg fan speaks on any boxers “short comings” can’t make this sh.it up
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:13 PM #305
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Yeah he's almost at the end of his career. There are only a couple of years left to enjoy him. Your time is running out to come to your senses. However sadly you have to endure many more years of coming to Canelo's defense when people increasingly point out his numerous shortcomings. Good luck on that..
canelo is 29...take golovkin off of canelos resume...and it still stands up

golovkin is 37...take canelo off of golovkins resume and its utter garbage
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:19 PM #306
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an all time great based off what honestly i stopped reading there, no need for a essay


all time great means he could compete in any era...how? every top middleweight he fought he barely beat...He hasnt beat anyone great, p4p entrant, his so called title defenses were against people many hard core fans struggle to recognize, youre pretty easily impressed or simply have a style preference


he was elevated by the wba, didnt win in ring.......wbc was handed to him and he did earn the ibf vs Lemieux



his defenses are mostly regular wba defenses when their was a super champion so the whole 17 defenses is bs


dude does not have a hall of fame resume no matter how you slice it.....his resume is too weak


Robinson, Monzon, Harry Greb, Hopkins, are all time great middleweights......GGG.....NAW
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Lol how are you going to ask for my opinion...and then not read my entire last post...a lot of your questions/disagreements are answered in there my friend...honestly sounds like you don't really want to know the answers...idk.

Also...on the bold...like what...he smoked anyone he faced besides Jacobs Canelo Canelo and SD...and I would say that he clearly won 3 of those other 4...and Canelo is clearly a pfp guy as well...so your logic there doesn't even make sense lol.

You're saying he barely beat every top MW he faced...so then you would have to be including those guys in there...and those guys are great fighters and Canelo on the pfp list, which you said GGG didn't have wins over guys like that lol.

Yeah for sure GGG is an ATG at MW...no real way around that my friend...like him or not...and with that he would be a HOFer...a bit lucky he fought at a top 3 (WW MW HW) division all-time to make his name...but yeah resume wise and just talent level wise he is clearly an ATG, imho.

I guess you disagree, you again are entitled to your opinion...as I pointed out in your last post, I disagree with a lot of your points, and think that some are a bit silly as far as being off with regards to GGG, or overrating past fighters.

And yeah, based on resume in their eras, GGG clearly belongs in the discussion for GOAT at MW...and is an ATG there and a clear HOFer.

And based on level/competing in any era, if you can honestly watch Monzon fight and then a clip of GGG, and say that Monzon could hang with GGG, then I just don't think you are keeping it very real my friend...I kind of knew that after you said you scored Ward-Kov to Ward...when that was a clear L to him...but it is what it is.

Not to mention, that most past great MWs would fight at lower weights if they fought these days...so 1-1 it's not really a fair comparison...but yeah if you ask for some of my opinions you should try reading my posts
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:20 PM #307
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canelo is 29...take golovkin off of canelos resume...and it still stands up

golovkin is 37...take canelo off of golovkins resume and its utter garbage
Lol not really...you can trash Canelo's resume other than GGG too if you really want to...I am not a child so I don't take petty shots when they aren't there, but Canelo has some legit stuff to criticize on his resume too, just like almost anyone else.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:23 PM #308
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Lol not really...you can trash Canelo's resume other than GGG too if you really want to...I am not a child so I don't take petty shots when they aren't there, but Canelo has some legit stuff to criticize on his resume too, just like almost anyone else.
lol...no...REALLY

you lames will nitpick canelos resume to holy hell....and thats fine...because youre gggroupies and thats what gggroupies do

fact is canelos stands up without golovkin...without canelo golovkins doesnt stand up

have fun nitpicking canelos to holy hell...because its in your nature.....canelo is like 8 years younger with a resume that is better and only more time to add and build on it....

when both careers are over canelos will dwarf golovkins....easy
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:28 PM #309
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lol...no...REALLY

you lames will nitpick canelos resume to holy hell....and thats fine...because youre gggroupies and thats what gggroupies do

fact is canelos stands up without golovkin...without canelo golovkins doesnt stand up

have fun nitpicking canelos to holy hell...because its in your nature.....canelo is like 8 years younger with a resume that is better and only more time to add and build on it....

when both careers are over canelos will dwarf golovkins....easy
I'm not a 'hater' or a 'fanboy' so I don't have any real interest in taking cheap shots at Canelo or anyone else.

But I disagree my friend...I don't think they are too dissimilar...but then again I rate dominant wins over solid pros in their primes as about equal to 'cherry-picked'/close decision wins over formerly great fighters, fighting at not their best weight.

I don't really have any rose colored glasses on for any of that...I'm not gonna let someone sell me a sh.it sandwich and say it's a great win just because a guy used to be great.

Canelo does have time on his side though...not sure how much longer he will go though...he has about as much tread on his tires as GGG does really.
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Old 02-11-2020, 03:37 PM #310
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I'm not a 'hater' or a 'fanboy' so I don't have any real interest in taking cheap shots at Canelo or anyone else.

But I disagree my friend...I don't think they are too dissimilar...but then again I rate dominant wins over solid pros in their primes as about equal to 'cherry-picked'/close decision wins over formerly great fighters, fighting at not their best weight.

I don't really have any rose colored glasses on for any of that...I'm not gonna let someone sell me a sh.it sandwich and say it's a great win just because a guy used to be great.

Canelo does have time on his side though...not sure how much longer he will go though...he has about as much tread on his tires as GGG does really.
HBO already sold you a sh.it sandwich buddy 😂 you ate it all up!
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