Boxing Forum
Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Training & Nutrition

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2006, 10:30 AM #1
Exige Jr Exige Jr is offline
Sugar Is Sweeter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,977
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 6733
Exige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 148,940.67
Bank: 150,808.40
Total Points: 299,749.07
Question The "Hands Down" Debate...

I don't know about how amateur boxing is conducted everywhere else but here in the UK there is a bit of controversy in the amateurs about having your hands down whilst you box. Boxers have been disqualified for using this tactic, but I was reading another board where they were debating this subject and someone accurately bought up the fact that Cuban boxers often fight with their hands down a little bit to draw the opponent in and then counter to score points. After he said that he then went on to say that Cuba is one of the most successfull amateur boxing nations in the world, if not the most successful.

So it's a valid point, should boxers be penalised for fighting with a certain style?

Actually on that board where I was reading the discussion there was a ref giving his point of view and he was basically saying that referee's should be allowed to penalise a boxer for that. I really disagreed with him but his justification was that a boxer must defend himself at all times. It was interesting to see the responses of others who were saying that havign a traditional hands up approach isnt always the best style. They pointed towards Ali and Hamed who were elusive in their styles to avoid shots who fought with their hands down.

My opinion is that boxers should be allowed to fight how they want. If they have their hands down and are successful then great. If they have their hands down and take shots they'll soon put them up! It only becomes the responsiblity of the ref when the boxer is taking undue punishment. But remember; hands down doesnt always equate to taking shots.

What are your thoughts?
Exige Jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
Old 11-09-2006, 10:41 AM #2
Pork Chop Pork Chop is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Marietta, GA
Age: 41
Posts: 747
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Pork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 114,641.92
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 114,641.92
Send a message via AIM to Pork Chop
Default

I don't think any punch or style should be penalized.

As long as your hitting with the padded area of the fist, which (in my opinion) is anything other than the palm or the forearm; and punching to a target that's on the front of the opponent & above the belt; then it should all be fair game.

Hell, I even think they should allow punching to the legs.

These dumb rules that try to dictate your style like no awkward looking punches, or ducking below the belt level of the opponent; are just stupid.
Pork Chop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:42 AM #3
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 2,425
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Rep Power: 18
PunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 48,404.55
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 48,404.55
Default

I think it's a travesty that there's even a need for a discussion like that. Boxers should be allowed to fight any style they want, as long as they don't make any illegal moves, like holding, ducking too deep or hitting outside the designated area. Different styles add spice to boxing. Who wants to watch two robots?

As for the "protect yourself at all times" argument, this just shows me what I already knew: People who become referees and judges in boxing, do so because they don't have the talent to become trainers, and are power hungry control freaks (Okay, that's putting it a bit bluntly
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.
). If you aren't allowed to fight the way you're most comfortable, how is that going to protect you? And where do you draw the line? I mena, throwing your own punches opens you up to get hit by a counter. By that line of thinking, throwing punches should be illegal too. Ridiculous.
PunchDrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:46 AM #4
PunchDrunk PunchDrunk is offline
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Age: 45
Posts: 2,425
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Rep Power: 18
PunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond reputePunchDrunk has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 48,404.55
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 48,404.55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Chop View Post
I don't think any punch or style should be penalized.

As long as your hitting with the padded area of the fist, which (in my opinion) is anything other than the palm or the forearm; and punching to a target that's on the front of the opponent & above the belt; then it should all be fair game.

Hell, I even think they should allow punching to the legs.

These dumb rules that try to dictate your style like no awkward looking punches, or ducking below the belt level of the opponent; are just stupid.
Punching the legs?!? HAHA!!! Gotta disagree on that one!
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


Also, I think the ducking below the belt thing, makes boxing messy, just like excessive holding. I don't think it's entirely fair to the opponent either, because you're taking away his chances to hit the designated area in kind of the same way as turning your back does. Should that be legal as well?
PunchDrunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:51 AM #5
Nacho_Analstain Nacho_Analstain is offline
Boxing in the face
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bolton, UK
Age: 28
Posts: 11,645
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 1869
Nacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 654,638.99
Bank: 57,935,313.77
Total Points: 58,589,952.76
This Beer represents Roy beating Joe Calzaghe, VERY SOON! - reedickyaluss No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza 
No Message - azza No Message - azza what kind of a sad cunt buys himself gifts? - mickeyb fucking gay - mickeyb No Message - P4PKING_2008 
Your milkshake brings all the whores to the board. Well, at least one of them. - K-Nan rocky sucks - RichLoc Don't say I never gave you anything ;) - woftam does cotto make you randy baby, yeah?? - Sin City Arise Sir Azza of Chavvington - Jambo Boy 
Send a message via MSN to Nacho_Analstain
Default

its stupid,i got told that if i duck 2 low i can be disqualified,is that true?i like 2 duck and weave,2 avoid punches,i never did get that 1
Nacho_Analstain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:52 AM #6
Exige Jr Exige Jr is offline
Sugar Is Sweeter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,977
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 6733
Exige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 148,940.67
Bank: 150,808.40
Total Points: 299,749.07
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchDrunk View Post
I think it's a travesty that there's even a need for a discussion like that. Boxers should be allowed to fight any style they want, as long as they don't make any illegal moves, like holding, ducking too deep or hitting outside the designated area. Different styles add spice to boxing. Who wants to watch two robots?

As for the "protect yourself at all times" argument, this just shows me what I already knew: People who become referees and judges in boxing, do so because they don't have the talent to become trainers, and are power hungry control freaks (Okay, that's putting it a bit bluntly
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.
). If you aren't allowed to fight the way you're most comfortable, how is that going to protect you? And where do you draw the line? I mena, throwing your own punches opens you up to get hit by a counter. By that line of thinking, throwing punches should be illegal too. Ridiculous.
Yep, its a complete farce that controversy surrounds this topic but it does so here we are.

In my opinion if you are ducking and slipping shots with your hands down you are a better boxer than someone who puts their hands up and semi takes the shots anyway. It's almost as if the inferior style of boxing is being encouraged. A complete shame that styles are not being allowed to flourish amongst these referee's. I wonder how "protect yourself at all times" suddenly doesnt apply when you turn pro?
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


Food for thought there.
Exige Jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:55 AM #7
Exige Jr Exige Jr is offline
Sugar Is Sweeter
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 6,977
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 6733
Exige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond reputeExige Jr has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 148,940.67
Bank: 150,808.40
Total Points: 299,749.07
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by azza View Post
its stupid,i got told that if i duck 2 low i can be disqualified,is that true?i like 2 duck and weave,2 avoid punches,i never did get that 1
No its below the belt line. A boy did it to me the other day in sparring and the trainer immediately stepped in and said "you know not to do that!". Ha.

So yeah duck and dodge all you want just dont go below the belt line of the opponent or you are basically fighting illegally. Fair I think.
Exige Jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 10:56 AM #8
Nacho_Analstain Nacho_Analstain is offline
Boxing in the face
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bolton, UK
Age: 28
Posts: 11,645
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 1869
Nacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 654,638.99
Bank: 57,935,313.77
Total Points: 58,589,952.76
This Beer represents Roy beating Joe Calzaghe, VERY SOON! - reedickyaluss No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza 
No Message - azza No Message - azza what kind of a sad cunt buys himself gifts? - mickeyb fucking gay - mickeyb No Message - P4PKING_2008 
Your milkshake brings all the whores to the board. Well, at least one of them. - K-Nan rocky sucks - RichLoc Don't say I never gave you anything ;) - woftam does cotto make you randy baby, yeah?? - Sin City Arise Sir Azza of Chavvington - Jambo Boy 
Send a message via MSN to Nacho_Analstain
Default

yeh fair enough,ill have to watch that 1 then,i jus never really look how low i am goin,all i know is i aint gettin hit when i do it so its abit of a habbit
Nacho_Analstain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 11:23 AM #9
Pork Chop Pork Chop is offline
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Marietta, GA
Age: 41
Posts: 747
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rep Power: 14
Pork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond reputePork Chop has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 114,641.92
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 114,641.92
Send a message via AIM to Pork Chop
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchDrunk View Post
Punching the legs?!? HAHA!!! Gotta disagree on that one!
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.
I come from a thai kickboxing background so I think you're just bein a wuss on that one.
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PunchDrunk View Post
Also, I think the ducking below the belt thing, makes boxing messy, just like excessive holding. I don't think it's entirely fair to the opponent either, because you're taking away his chances to hit the designated area in kind of the same way as turning your back does. Should that be legal as well?
Turning your back should not be legal, but the ducking rule promotes tall fighters. Boxing's not basketball. Height shouldn't be the determining factor in the rules, when it's not in a fight (mma folks know this). If I want to come in under your radar and come up with a huge rising punch if you decide to lean down, that should be my perogative.

EDIT: just to clarify I'm talking about coming in from a low crouch, not a bent at the waist stance.

Excessive holding's not good but you've got other options there as well like allowing holding & hitting, or maybe allowing a little bit of wrestling (no intentional throws tho) in the clinch.
"Dirty Boxing" is legal in MMA and thai kickboxing without so many problems with it.
Pork Chop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2006, 11:27 AM #10
Nacho_Analstain Nacho_Analstain is offline
Boxing in the face
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bolton, UK
Age: 28
Posts: 11,645
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Rep Power: 1869
Nacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond reputeNacho_Analstain has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 654,638.99
Bank: 57,935,313.77
Total Points: 58,589,952.76
This Beer represents Roy beating Joe Calzaghe, VERY SOON! - reedickyaluss No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza No Message - azza 
No Message - azza No Message - azza what kind of a sad cunt buys himself gifts? - mickeyb fucking gay - mickeyb No Message - P4PKING_2008 
Your milkshake brings all the whores to the board. Well, at least one of them. - K-Nan rocky sucks - RichLoc Don't say I never gave you anything ;) - woftam does cotto make you randy baby, yeah?? - Sin City Arise Sir Azza of Chavvington - Jambo Boy 
Send a message via MSN to Nacho_Analstain
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exige Jr View Post
Yep, its a complete farce that controversy surrounds this topic but it does so here we are.

In my opinion if you are ducking and slipping shots with your hands down you are a better boxer than someone who puts their hands up and semi takes the shots anyway. It's almost as if the inferior style of boxing is being encouraged. A complete shame that styles are not being allowed to flourish amongst these referee's. I wonder how "protect yourself at all times" suddenly doesnt apply when you turn pro?
Image View Removed. Please Click Here.


Food for thought there.
especially when in the pros u have no headgear,lighter gloves
Nacho_Analstain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share This With Friends

User Tag List

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:24 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.