Wladimir Klitschko

[Southpaw16BF]

Thank you for making my point in spades.

By the time Harry turned 23, his record was 64-9-10, liberally sprinkled with losses/NDs/"newspaper decisions" and draws. Most of his bouts were 6 rds, though he eventually made some 10-20 rds. He was fighting often enough that he probably did very little sparring.

And? There is still no taking away the fact Harry Greb had 45 fight in 1919 and won every single one of them. And you may see alot of Newspaper decisions on Greb's record, but don't be fooled as I have explained in the past, ''No decison fights'' as they are often called were still the norm in alot of the boxing world, this meaning alot of bouts would likely end this way.

Now for example fighitng was legal in New York when Harry Greb was fighting, but no decsion bouts were the norm in Grebs hometown Pitsburgh were he was doing most of his fighting, so thats why alot of Grebs fight are no decision or newspaper decisions. Now Greb should of won alot of these no decision bouts but didn't as they were the norm in Pitsburgh.

And once again you are wrong, you say Greb probaly done very little sparring. What!Greb was always training and especailly sparring, he always fit time into his traning and sparring, the myth that he was a drinker and trainer cound't be further from the truth.

From day one I get the impression you don't know much about Greb. Like I said you should research on him, you will learn alot.


__________________

[GJC]

You're starting to sound like ME

Poet

ooo now that is a low blow

[StarshipTrooper]

ooo now that is a low blow

[polybus]

forman said him self
as soon as the russians can compeat thell take over
wounder why he thought this
look what happend

[LondonRingRules]

OK boy, can I just clarify a few points and I would love it if you could content yourself with short answers to the questions rather than coming up with longer sentences than Judge Jeffries.

1) Do you think that 90s Foreman was better than 70s Foreman?
2) Both Wlad and Byrd all things being equal would beat Ali ?
3) How many rounds do you give Mildenberger in his fight against Ali?
4) What % do you make McCline against Frazier, e.g. 50/50,55/45?
5) How long would you say on average does a fighters peak last and when would you say Liston's peak was?
And finally the big one, by all means include your top 10 or 20 list.
6) Where do you rank Ali in your personal ATG list?

6 very simple questions which I am very interested to hear the answers to, is that simple enough boy?

** Great, you want me to answer an invalid question you make up.

1. In some respects, better, in other respects, worse.
2. No things are ever in stasis or equal on a day to day basis in any fighter.
3. Not gonna go search my scoring records for this. I used Uncle Howie's opinion as the basis of my own commentary.
4. McCline/Frazier wouldn't stay in stasis. McCline of Wlad against Joe of Ali 1 would be around 40/60
5. Average fighter is an average journeyman with an average peak of 1 yr. Liston's peak obviously 59-62.
6. My ATG list can be found as easily by you in the top thread header where you can see Ali's ratings by me and a hundred others.

[GJC]

** Great, you want me to answer an invalid question you make up.

1. In some respects, better, in other respects, worse.
2. No things are ever in stasis or equal on a day to day basis in any fighter.
3. Not gonna go search my scoring records for this. I used Uncle Howie's opinion as the basis of my own commentary.
4. McCline/Frazier wouldn't stay in stasis. McCline of Wlad against Joe of Ali 1 would be around 40/60
5. Average fighter is an average journeyman with an average peak of 1 yr. Liston's peak obviously 59-62.
6. My ATG list can be found as easily by you in the top thread header where you can see Ali's ratings by me and a hundred others.

Not really invalid, 1st 5 questions were clarifying statements you have made in this thread. Last question was to satisfy my curiosity. You answered number 4 and 5, fudged 1 to 3 and redirected me on number 6. Still better than I was hoping for, thankyou.

[GJC]

** Great, you want me to answer an invalid question you make up.

1. In some respects, better, in other respects, worse.
2. No things are ever in stasis or equal on a day to day basis in any fighter.
3. Not gonna go search my scoring records for this. I used Uncle Howie's opinion as the basis of my own commentary.
4. McCline/Frazier wouldn't stay in stasis. McCline of Wlad against Joe of Ali 1 would be around 40/60
5. Average fighter is an average journeyman with an average peak of 1 yr. Liston's peak obviously 59-62.
6. My ATG list can be found as easily by you in the top thread header where you can see Ali's ratings by me and a hundred others.

Sorry struggling to find your list, is it the following or is that a list of someone else you are quoting?:

1. Jack Johnson
2. Jim Jeffries
3. Bob Fitzsimmons
4. Jack Dempsey
5. James J. Corbett
6. Joe Louis
7. Sam Langford
8. Gene Tunney
9. Max Schmeling
10. Rocky Marciano

[Southpaw16BF]

In all honestly I do feel Wladamir dosen't quite get the credit he deserves. There is no douting he is a very skilled and dedicated fighter. He has a great offence and is at times hard to hit. His jab is one of the best in the game, sharp and very accurate, when he uses it his right cross is one of the hardest punchers in boxing, and can KO most heavyweights.

He also has a great boxing brain and moves his feet well and has brillant timing. Now i do not deny the fight that at times, there is no dout Klitschko is a caution first fighter and dosen't like to take lots of risks, his chin is alo a weak point. But is this such a bad thing.

The art of boxing is to hit and not be hit, Wladmir isn't on his own. Jack Johnson at times could be caution first and let a fight drag on, when the opponet is there for the taking. As the thread starter pointed out Maxie Rosenbloom was known as ''Slapsie Maxie'' and at times would hit you with a open glove and slap, not even putting the full power into his glove or shot.

But yet Klitschko is attacked because of it, but he isn't as cautious as some people make out, he owns a KO percentage of 83.64%. and has knocked 46 out of 52 wins

I feel the reason Klitscko is disliked, is due to the fact alot of the USA Public can't accept him. They can't accept the fact that a Eastern European is World Heavyweight Champion, a man who is a thinking first fighter.

The USA and most of the world don't want this, they want a KO artist who fighters fear and is beast in and out of the ring, they want excitment and drama. Thats why Jack Dempsey and Mike Tyson were so loved adored.

And another thing is, Bert Sugar claims Heavyweight Champions need to KO People, hmmmm..... But yet Jack Johnson and Gene Tunney were never always knocking out fighters in there reigns, but Bert can accept them. Bert Sugar at times can make me laugh, with his bogus comments.

At the end of the day, Wladamir Klitschko is a world class fighter, and may be remembered better when retired but I dout it. Him and Haye should be a very intereting one and a fight that should get the publics's attention.

[Flicker Jab]

Why doesnt klitschko get the same respect as former great fighters who were saftey first, had defence and always wasnt great to watch, such as jack johnson and gene tunney, tommy loughran, maxie rosenbloom. Wladimir has never avoided no one and is the true art of boxing hit and not be hit. After he shuts haye up i think he will get his due respect as a truly great fighter. On a side note how can bert sugar give this man no respect when he ranks fighters as maxi rosenbloom so high who got the nick name slapsie maxi cos he didnt want to commit to a puch so he would just slap or paw his punches. Bert is full of bull ****!

I don't really see what you are trying to say...

Look at the history of the sport through another person's perspective other than Sugar.....? I mean, the answer is pretty self-evident...I'm guessing you made this thread to sound intelligent, when in truth you're just a thumb-in-ass noob who bought a copy of Bert Sugar on Boxing.