Top 5 defensive hw's of all time!

[Azteca]

joe louis - no way is he a top 5 defensive heavy. we all saw the way schmeling exploited his right hand placement in the first fight.

imo, jack johnson had the best defense especially at a primitive time in boxing.

[butterfly1964]

joe louis - no way is he a top 5 defensive heavy. we all saw the way schmeling exploited his right hand placement in the first fight.

imo, jack johnson had the best defense especially at a primitive time in boxing.

joe louis' defense was waaaaay better than johnson's. johnson's opponents weren't as skilled or evolved as louis' opponents.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

joe louis' defense was waaaaay better than johnson's. johnson's opponents weren't as skilled or evolved as louis' opponents.

Finally Butterfly lays down some truth

good job
Louis is the greatest all around fighter ever IMO (in the hw division anyway)

[Azteca]

i have joe louis as my top heavy but i don't think he was anywhere near jack johnson's defence. johnson had every trick in the book, unlike louis who relied on his jab and inside hooks/uppercuts to paralyze his opponents. he was great at punching without leaving himself open, but often had trouble with opponents who employed the crouch, and standoff-ish fighters who used lateral movement and made louis come to them.

johnson was also the first fighter (i have seen) who employed the shoulder roll, and the way he would step into range dip and tuck and slip the punch was absolutely phenomenal. for his size, his defence was outstanding - perhaps one of the best, if not, THE best.

[Da Iceman]

i have joe louis as my top heavy but i don't think he was anywhere near jack johnson's defence. johnson had every trick in the book, unlike louis who relied on his jab and inside hooks/uppercuts to paralyze his opponents. he was great at punching without leaving himself open, but often had trouble with opponents who employed the crouch, and standoff-ish fighters who used lateral movement and made louis come to them.

johnson was also the first fighter (i have seen) who employed the shoulder roll, and the way he would step into range dip and tuck and slip the punch was absolutely phenomenal. for his size, his defence was outstanding - perhaps one of the best, if not, THE best.

ive never seen johnson do the shoulder roll. which fight was this?

[Azteca]

johnson used the old method of fighting. hands in front of you in the counterpunch position so you would be able to last over 30 rounds. many fighters have also used the shoulder roll but have not been known to do so. jake lamotta is a prime example.

i have seen the shoulder roll used in the ketchel - johnson bout in brief moments.

[Brassangel]

I wasn't stating that everything in the game was accurate; it's simulation, and currently, the best one out there visually, and for the experience. If someone points me to a rediculous, third party boxing sim, they're just being blind to the obvious. Even so, while the game carries many flaws, Ali's chin is rated about where it should be; which is all I was saying. Also, Ali's speed is not crazy high because setting a heavyweight to 90+ speed in that game is absurd. Have you played with a "make your own champ" with a high speed rating? It's not even fair. In fact, it makes the fighter nigh unbeatable, which Ali was not. Even so, use Ali a few times against the other fighters, and use him in his style: dancing, switching directions, leaning, etc. He's smooth, and his jab gets in quicker than any of the others. The only one who even comes close to jab speed (at least in the 360 version) is Roy Jones. For those who have seen the results, Roy Jones actually clocked quicker handspeed at age 35 and blown up to heavyweight than Ali did at any age. Despite those facts, Ali was still a quicker fighter, given his overall fluidity and style, as well as timing.

Oh yeah, my defensive fighter choices haven't changed.

[tommyhearns804]

Number 1 if Ali had great d he wouldn't be walking around today with brain damage.2 If Tyson had d he wouldn't of been knocked out 5 times.3 When did James Toney become a heavyweight?I could of sworn he was a blown up middleweight who fought a few cruiserweight bums and a couple of past their prime heavyweights 4 Who did Joe Louis really fight?Nobody that is who is fought..Fighting bums for your whole career doesn't prove jack.. 5 Larry Holmes really didnt fight many people either..He had a good d-fense but he never really faced that many other greats in their prime to prove he would avoid them.. 6 Ezzard Charles was a small Cruiserweight so he is off the list.7 Jack Johnson was also a cruiserweight and even at that boxing was alot different back then.Not many fighters went all out with their attacks.Most fighters up untill Dempsey threw one punch at a time and then grabbed so Johnson is off the list.
So guess what heavyweight who was actually a heavyweight had a great d-fense?None In general heavyweights are the most unskilled boxers compare to smaller weight classes..But if you are going to go with what heavyweights were hit the least times in their primes then the answer would be Foreman and Lewis but as i said neither had a really great defense they just used their offense to overwelm who they were fighting..
By the way Jake Lamotta didn't have much power at all.As figured the moron Kid Achillies would post something stupid.If you have 100 wins and 30's ko's that means you can't punch period.I don't give a fuk who you are.And Lamotta didn't really fight to many guys who could punch to began with..He fought alot of bums in his career.So saying his chin is a 100 shows you know nothing about boxing.If Lamotta was figting the Roy Jones,The G-Mans,and any other of the vicious punchers from the 80's up to today and showed he could handle their punches then his chin would be a 100
The only fighters who should have a 100 chin would be David Tua who was never hurt or knocked down as a pro, or Hagler.Not even Chuvalo deserves to be that high.He wasn't knocked down but he was out on his feet alot.Foreman had a great chin but was still knocked down..so their chins should be in the 90's.Lamotta at best should be in the 70's for chin and 30's in power.

[Imira]

Definitely Ezzard Charles, in my opinion. He used subtle movement and feints to disrupt his opponents timing and counterpunch. He would lean back in a snake-like motion and force his opponents off balance. He seemed to know every defensive trick in the book, which allowed him to remain as successful at heavyweight until his 80+ fight career began catching up with him.

[butterfly1964]

bump......