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Old 05-12-2019, 07:11 PM #41
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Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Every example is spot on. People just don't want to admit they overhype guys the Charlos and Jeff Lacy, then when those guys get beat they hop on another bandwagon.

GGG is another "eye test" experiment gone wrong.
You're saying people shouldn't use their knowledge based opinion and then essentially giving your opinion...

Whilst some of your examples have merit, or I can see where your coming from, you're generalizing, and quite frankly some of those fighters have accomplished a lot, others were never as hyped as you say, and some, the hype was justified at the time. Everyone can be clever using hindsight.

You come across obnoxious.

Now I'm not gonna go into specifics with the examples that you gave, but in general people get overhyped or over-critical of fighters and it's been like that since all my years here. But there are a lot of knowledgeable posters in.between who know what they are looking at and can give a well rounded view of a fighter, but even those people can get it wrong, and we see world class trainers/fighters get it wrong all the time
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:13 PM #42
B Phontain B Phontain is offline
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Originally Posted by Mister Wolf View Post
You going to pretend Khan wasn't getting his bell rung before Presscott? Maybe he passed your eye test but he certainly didn't pass the World's eye test.

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Vs a domestic nobody. Same overhand right he always gets hit with. You overrated Khan because you couldn't see the writing on the wall. Live with it.

The way he fell LMAO
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:30 PM #43
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Originally Posted by sunny31 View Post
You're saying people shouldn't use their knowledge based opinion and then essentially giving your opinion...
"eye test" is not "knowledge based" opinion. You're looking at a guy slicing through pies and saying they're P4P and then other guys who have clear victories over Hall of Fame quality fighters it's like "meh, he's good, not #1 P4P". Why? Because he doesn't knock everyone out?

So then why is Edwin Valero not everyone's #1 P4P now and forever? Why is Deontay Wilder "TILL THIS DAY!!!" never been considered P4P?

Like Wilder can slice through pies and he gets NO consideration for P4P, yet Crawford does the same thing and all of a sudden he's this legendary fighter that can beat a prime Floyd Mayweather. All because of the 'eye test'. It's a joke and you know it.

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Originally Posted by sunny31 View Post
Whilst some of your examples have merit, or I can see where your coming from, you're generalizing, and quite frankly some of those fighters have accomplished a lot, others were never as hyped as you say, and some, the hype was justified at the time. Everyone can be clever using hindsight.
The hype was NEVER justified for any of these guys. That's the problem.

When people were running around calling Chocolatito #1 P4P, I'm like, the dude hasn't beaten anybody worth a damn. "eye test".

Leading up to Rungvisai 1 I said he was going lose that fight, nobody believed me. We saw what happened. Then people say Choco was robbed. Really?

larryxxx.. up in here saying Adrien Broner was going to be Fighter of the Decade. "eye test"

Tons of people saying Golovkin beats Floyd and knocks out Canelo. "Eye test"

Countless people saying Spence walks through everybody. "Eye test"


My point is, there's ONE metric that matters. What have you done in your current weight class? If you haven't done a damn thing yet, you don't deserve P4P, and when you get a chance to show it with a Hall of Fame quality fighter and low blow them or otherwise fail to get them out of your face with the ease you should do if you're really P4P, then you're not P4P. It's that simple.
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Old 05-13-2019, 01:16 AM #44
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Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Floyd, Peterson, Danny Garcia, Keith Thurman and Canelo all box circles around Boone. Even prime Boone. You know that.

The thing is, that's less about Boone than those fighters. Boone is a challenge for fighters who tend to stop fighting smart when they get ****y about who's across from them. Loma and Crawford BOTH fit in that category. Which is why Loma holds an L from Salido and got dropped by Linares, and why Crawford was Bambi'd by Gamboa and had to resort to low blowing Khan. If he couldn't spark Khan's chin to get him out of there fair, there's no way he's getting Boone out of there - and Boone walks through the punches.
Boone is a tough customer for any well schooled fighter. His toughness, sneaky power, and unorthodox style makes him dangerous. Bottom line is him beating an unproven fighter in Stevenson, dropping Ward and almost stopping a grossly overrated fighter like Kovalev is no surprise to anyone who knows boxing.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:37 AM #45
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Originally Posted by KingHippo View Post
Boone is a tough customer for any well schooled fighter. His toughness, sneaky power, and unorthodox style makes him dangerous. Bottom line is him beating an unproven fighter in Stevenson, dropping Ward and almost stopping a grossly overrated fighter like Kovalev is no surprise to anyone who knows boxing.
Stevenson was more of a quality fighter when he was younger than he was when he was older. Don't want to hear that.

Dropping Ward was NOT expected. Not sure where that's coming from.

And calling Kovalev overrated because he tends to drink too much in camp? He's already proven that when he doesn't drink and pays attention to what the F he's doing, he's a threat to anyone. He arguably won the first fight against Ward and he arguably got questionably stopped in the second fight. The only LEGIT loss he had was getting knocked out by Alvarez - a knockout he soundly avenged in the rematch.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:30 AM #46
KingHippo KingHippo is offline
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Stevenson was more of a quality fighter when he was younger than he was when he was older. Don't want to hear that.

Dropping Ward was NOT expected. Not sure where that's coming from.
So now you're going to pull random **** out of your @$$? Stevenson was 11 fights in, not even a champion, and a complete nobody. Him loosing to Boone would only be a surprise to a casual who doesn't know who Boone actually was. Same **** with Ward. Prime Boone gives trouble to any top super middle and most top light heavies, that just the way it is.

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Originally Posted by revelated View Post
And calling Kovalev overrated because he tends to drink too much in camp? He's already proven that when he doesn't drink and pays attention to what the F he's doing, he's a threat to anyone.
Lol with the [email protected]$$ drunk Russian stereotypes. Kovalev was overrated because he was ranked top 3 P4P when there was nothing in his skillset or resume to warrant it.

Just admit it, you have no idea what you're looking at. There's not problem in doing math and feeling like you know something. Some of us are just limited.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:24 AM #47
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Originally Posted by revelated View Post
Triad theory doesn't work, according to NSB.

Jeff 'The Hornet' Horn holds a UNANIMOUS decision victory over Manny Pacquiao.

DO you know who else holds a UNANIMOUS decision victory over Manny Pacquiao?

Erik Morales. Hall of Famer.
Floyd Mayweather. Hall of Famer.

Meanwhile Jeff Horn beat the guy (Ali Funeka) that beat the guy (Zahir Raheem) that beat that same Erik Morales fresh off Morales beating Manny Pacquiao UNANIMOUS.

Meanwhile Jeff Horn beat Randall Bailey, the same Randall Bailey once considered the most dangerous puncher in the sport next to George Foreman.

Meanwhile Jeff Horn retired another Hall of Famer in Anthony Mundine.

Again, it's WHO he beat. Crawford has NO win that compares EXCEPT Horn - and that win has an asterisk because the fight got delayed over a suspicious hand injury by Crawford, Horn wasn't ever hurt and he was stopped on his feet.



Back in the day before Prescott, everyone was talking about this exciting, amazing Olympic fighter with blistering speed. This guy's going to give Manny Pacquiao a run for his money!! ...based only on how he looked in the ring. The Prescott KO was an absolute shock. Go back to the news articles bro, I remember it clear as day.
Fact check before you post *****. He was getting dropped by journey men and people questioned how far he would go as a result.

He got hype behind him when he was paired with Roach. In fairness to him, he started stacking some good wins before running into Garcia.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:39 AM #48
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And if we're taking that tact against what Rosenthal said, if Canelo, Loma and Crawford all retired today, are we seriously saying that Lomachenko and Crawford should be considered up there with Sugar Ray Leonard?

No. It's laughable. That's the problem. Those guys aren't even Mayorga's level.

If those three guys retired TODAY, Canelo is a first ballot Hall of Famer. Period. First ballot Hall of Famers are P4P by their very nature. It means they got in there and tangled with some of the best in the business. That's not an "eye test" measure. It's factual data of what a fighter actually did vs. what it "looks" like they "could" do. That's what got Golovkin in trouble.
I've been laughing the whole time reading posts in this thread but I give you this. You do have a fair point about this one.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:45 AM #49
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If Jeff Horn is a "pass" on an "eye test" for you get a second opinion immediately.
I'd give a solid chance against Mcgregor even at MMA
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:03 AM #50
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Originally Posted by DumpkinsPlus5 View Post
Unlike everyone else, I'm not gonna nitpick the listed examples and focus on the crux of the thread. I agree that the eye test shouldn't supplant resume when ranking a fighter. The eye test is what you believe a fighter will eventually do in the FUTURE based on their talent. A resume is what a fighter has already PROVEN. Ranking fighter with the eye test above proven fighters is a slap in the face to fighters who have accomplished what you think a supposedly more talented fighter will achieve eventually.
I agree that 'eye test' should not be the only basis but we have to accept that it's also one the criteria on rating a fighter alongside 'level of opposition' and 'dominance'. The TS is making a case that Canelo should be #1 before Crawford and Loma but Canelo also lacks one of the criteria that I mentioned and that's 'dominance'.
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