Stylistic Groups

[frankenfrank]

Jackson could box, but he wasn't on the same level as Bowe or Liston. Liston was great technically, could block/slip and roll with punches, had a great jab which he used to set up his power punches.

Bowe fought out of the orthodox stance, had a great jab (didnt use it as much as Liston did), could fight on the inside and was adept at slipping punches.

Almost everyone with such a height advantage will have a great jab.
See Ibeabuchi-Tua , Bowe was not much different from Ibeabuchi , something like a 6'4" Ibeabuchi (yes , I know boxrec differs) . Ibeabuchi jabbed on some occasions against Tua to allow himself recuperation time , does that make him a boxer-puncher ? I watched the whole Bowe-Holyfield trilogy and then a few more of Bowe's fights and he was more of a slugger than anything else .

[frankenfrank]

This is pretty typical Jirov:

Not a slugger in that fight but that was an untypical Jirov. Who cares about how he performed against nobodies ? You could make such a case for Ronald Wright being a knockout artist if you posted some of his earliest fights .
A fighter is defined by his performances against elite opponents and in his relevant losses , not by such unimportant fights.

[BennyST]

[QUOTE=frankenfrank;9169387]Almost everyone with such a height advantage will have a great jab.
See Ibeabuchi-Tua , Bowe was not much different from Ibeabuchi , something like a 6'4" Ibeabuchi (yes , I know boxrec differs) . Ibeabuchi jabbed on some occasions against Tua to allow himself recuperation time , does that make him a boxer-puncher ? I watched the whole Bowe-Holyfield trilogy and then a few more of Bowe's fights and he was more of a slugger than anything else .[/QUOTE]

Try watching his whole career then. He was pulled into brawls very easily, like Morales, but he was not a slugger.

[Toney616]

Almost everyone with such a height advantage will have a great jab.

Not really, it depends on the fighter

See Ibeabuchi-Tua , Bowe was not much different from Ibeabuchi , something like a 6'4" Ibeabuchi (yes , I know boxrec differs). Ibeabuchi jabbed on some occasions against Tua to allow himself recuperation time

He jabbed to break Tua's rhythm and to make him pay every time he tried to close the gap (think Rahman -Tua II)

does that make him a boxer-puncher ?

Of course. He could punch and he had power, (think Ike-Byrd)

I watched the whole Bowe-Holyfield trilogy and then a few more of Bowe's fights and he was more of a slugger than anything else .

Marciano and Foreman were a sluggers and they fight nothing like Bowe

[frankenfrank]

[QUOTE=frankenfrank;9169387]Almost everyone with such a height advantage will have a great jab.
See Ibeabuchi-Tua , Bowe was not much different from Ibeabuchi , something like a 6'4" Ibeabuchi (yes , I know boxrec differs) . Ibeabuchi jabbed on some occasions against Tua to allow himself recuperation time , does that make him a boxer-puncher ? I watched the whole Bowe-Holyfield trilogy and then a few more of Bowe's fights and he was more of a slugger than anything else.
Try watching his whole career then. He was pulled into brawls very easily, like Morales, but he was not a slugger.

So you just admitted that I was true.
Maybe not a pure brawler but there were very few who were purer brawlers than he was.

[BennyST]

Not a slugger in that fight but that was an untypical Jirov. Who cares about how he performed against nobodies ? You could make such a case for Ronald Wright being a knockout artist if you posted some of his earliest fights .
A fighter is defined by his performances against elite opponents and in his relevant losses , not by such unimportant fights.

Are you sure about that? How about this fight in the middle of his long title reign just before fighting Toney? Does that make you feel better?


Anyway.....How many of his fights have you seen? That is how Jirov fought for his whole career bar a few major fights.

A fighter is defined by his whole career. Not one or two fights as you seem so keen on showing. See, this is why some people think of Hagler as a slugger, because they saw him against Leonard and Hearns...and maybe Duran and Mugabi. His entire career of sixty of whatever fights was done as a counter puncher, boxer, jab heavy.....he fought like a brawler in a few fights when he was older and slower.

Do you know he had about sixty other fights!?

[frankenfrank]

Not really, it depends on the fighter

He jabbed to break Tua's rhythm and to make him pay every time he tried to close the gap (think Rahman -Tua II)

Watched that fight at least 3 times . Ibeabuchi jabbed to allow himself more time to recuperate and to take from the time when he traded with Tua.
It also non rightfully helped him in the scorecards .

Of course. He could punch and he had power, (think Ike-Byrd)

Technique and physical prowess does not necessarily coincide.

Marciano and Foreman were a sluggers and they fight nothing like Bowe

Marciano was a pressure fighter. Foreman a slugger , and while he did not fight very similar to Bowe it was not me who raised the similarities .
While Foreman was more of a mid range slugger than Bowe , Bowe was more of an infighter and slightly more of an outboxer so overall he was not much less of a slugger.

[BennyST]

So you just admitted that I was true.
Maybe not a pure brawler but there were very few who were purer brawlers than he was.

What?

Ok, so you think someone who brawls is a slugger now? You think that a few fights equals a whole career? So, Morales is a slugger? Pacquiao is a slugger? Duran is a slugger? Even Mayweather is a slugger if he we go on his 130 career. Whitaker is a slugger because he had some serious slugfests in his time.

Sorry man, but I just don't get where you're coming from.....

[BennyST]

Apart from the one or two fights of Jirov that you have seen, do you know anything about his career?

Have you seen anything apart from Toney, Mesi etc? His whole career is based on boxing....he himself is so pissed that he didn't box Toney but tried a different gameplan which worked against him. He tried to just run through him with volume, which wasn't his normal game.....


Forget it.

[Toney616]

Watched that fight at least 3 times . Ibeabuchi jabbed to allow himself more time to recuperate and to take from the time when he traded with Tua

Ike wanted to fight long range, while Tua was trying to fight close range to limit the effectiveness of Ike's punches. That was why Ike kept pushing Tua back and you can see that he was working off the jab with his right and left hooks.

Technique and physical prowess does not necessarily coincide.

He could box and he had one punch kO power, so it obviously coincided for Ike

Marciano was a pressure fighter. Foreman a slugger

They both came forward, cut off the ring and wore you down with their power punches. They are much more alike than they are with Bowe

and while he did not fight very similar to Bowe it was not me who raised the similarities .

Bowe did get into slug fest no doubt about that, but he was also a top boxer who had a good jab, which he used to set you up for power punches. You never saw him coming at his opponent only throwing left and right hooks like Marciano and Foreman did.

While Foreman was more of a mid range slugger than Bowe , Bowe was more of an infighter and slightly more of an outboxer so overall he was not much less of a slugger.

Bowe got into slugfests at time that is true, but that wasnt were his talent lied. He was solid defensively, worked off the jab and could fight long range, mid or close range. Does that sound like a description of a slugger to you?