A Couple of Jack Johnson questions

[Hawkins]

** Sam's manager put out a false account of that fight claiming Sam got the better of Johnson in hopes of goading Johnson's pride into a rematch.

They only fought once for the record, a 15 rd decision for Johnson on Sam's home turf, so you can't ask for a more convincing win. Sam was KDed in the 6th, but reportedly had Johnson in some trouble afterwards and attempted to fight him outside a bar the next day. Keep in mind that Sam had stepped directly from fighting a series against HOF lightweight Blackburn to HOFer Jeannette only 4 months before the Johnson bout. Johnson was the 3rd heavy Sam ever faced, being 1-1 against Jeannette plus a KO of journeyman Black Fitz.

Never heard of any exhibition between them, but if it occurred it had to have been long after both retired.

Joe Louis and Jack Blackburn hosted Sam in one of their training camps and made him a King. They ran Johnson off when he visited. Jeannette and Harry Wills regarded Langford as the best heavy of this era and both made attempts to get Johnson into the ring also.

Well, is it your opinion that Johnson didn't face those guys out of fear of losing the title or was it truly a financial decision on Johnson's part? Alot of what I've read makes Johnson out to be a liar and a blowhard so I'm not sure what I believe.

[duffgun]

Well, is it your opinion that Johnson didn't face those guys out of fear of losing the title or was it truly a financial decision on Johnson's part? Alot of what I've read makes Johnson out to be a liar and a blowhard so I'm not sure what I believe.

i wouldn't believe anything johnson said. i read the johnson book unforgivable blackness and it mentions a exabitions bout with johnson.

[LondonRingRules]

Well, is it your opinion that Johnson didn't face those guys out of fear of losing the title or was it truly a financial decision on Johnson's part? Alot of what I've read makes Johnson out to be a liar and a blowhard so I'm not sure what I believe.

** Johnson was a genius self promoter who appropriately ended up hoist on his own petard in France. He didn't want any other black encroaching on his territory, and basically sat on the title in a series of exhibitions against dreary white hopes and middleweights and one mediocre black journeyman that counted as title bouts. He lost to the most dangerous fighter he ever faced Willard, ironically giving the best account of himself of any fight he ever had.

Strange turn of events. What I like about that time is that Johnson appears to be an early cross trainer. Being unable to run for any distance, he starts swimming in the Carribean daily for an hour to supplement his sparring. Also holds a US patent on a modification of a wrench while serving in Leavenworth. Quite a character study.

[Hawkins]

** Johnson was a genius self promoter who appropriately ended up hoist on his own petard in France. He didn't want any other black encroaching on his territory, and basically sat on the title in a series of exhibitions against dreary white hopes and middleweights and one mediocre black journeyman that counted as title bouts. He lost to the most dangerous fighter he ever faced Willard, ironically giving the best account of himself of any fight he ever had.

Strange turn of events. What I like about that time is that Johnson appears to be an early cross trainer. Being unable to run for any distance, he starts swimming in the Carribean daily for an hour to supplement his sparring. Also holds a US patent on a modification of a wrench while serving in Leavenworth. Quite a character study.

LRR, what are some of your recommending reading materials on these guys? Is there anything inparticular that you would point out?

[StarshipTrooper]

Keep in mind Langford was a natural Welterweight and Johnson a natural Heavyweight. It puts it into perspective that had, basically, a Welterweight KOing Heavyweights. Asking him to beat Johnson was probably asking too much, that he was competitive is nothing short of incredible all things considered.

Poet

[Hawkins]

Keep in mind Langford was a natural Welterweight and Johnson a natural Heavyweight. It puts it into perspective that had, basically, a Welterweight KOing Heavyweights. Asking him to beat Johnson was probably asking too much, that he was competitive is nothing short of incredible all things considered.

Poet

Yes I agree. It's one of the reason I was perplexed when it seemed that Jack Johnson was ducking him in later years.

[StarshipTrooper]

I like that you're giving Floyd (the REAL Floyd) Patterson some props!

Poet

[Hawkins]

I like that you're giving Floyd (the REAL Floyd) Patterson some props!

Poet

Alot of people utterly dismiss Floyd because of his onesided KO losses to Liston. No matter..I love Floyd and love to watch him fight! I think because of the Liston bouts his skills get criminally underrated.

[StarshipTrooper]

Alot of people utterly dismiss Floyd because of his onesided KO losses to Liston. No matter..I love Floyd and love to watch him fight! I think because of the Liston bouts his skills get criminally underrated.

He was also a wonderful human being which is why I've always liked him.

Poet

[Super_Lightweight]

Nat Fleischer called Jack Johnson the best heavyweight of all time.