Tweet
I'll probably change this up a bit later but for right now I reckon it'd be a bit of fun to try to integrate current top BK HWs into the 1880s and prior in the form of ranking.
Seems like a lot of under talented and fixed fighting or at least dubious results, but, so did the olden version too.
I have no criteria at the moment, not even got my notes on the boys handy. Just gonna shoot it from the hip and memory.
Daniel Mendoza - LW, WW, MW, and HW champion, granddaddy of boxing defense, marketing, ticket sales, and training. British champion.
John L Sullivan - Legendary Champion. Had a fantastic record for the era but he's kind of stuck between worlds. I've heard people say most of his fights were queensberry. That's not true. I've also heard folks say he was mostly bare knuckle. Also not true. John L was mostly LPR mixed with QB while wearing all sorts of different style of gloves. He's the transition champion and his career reflects that. Was he a great BK champion? Probably considering he actually drew the English for the world title in both sports, but, then lost to the gloved boxer, Corbett, who promptly ended the English dispute in 3. Where as, John L also drew the English claimant for BK. Then he KO'd the man who beat the English champion and reinstate himself as top dog in Bare Knuckle. In gloved boxing, LPR with gloves, QB with a touch of LPR rules, makes no difference, Sully never actually proved he was the best in his era. He did in BK though. World champion x2
Jem Mace - fought all over, has a great record, taught the world how to box and then showed it off, but also, is the first man to successfully defend world honors several times. World champion
Joe Goss - MW and HW champion, lost his Engish recognition to Mace, both the MW and HW titles to Mace. Drew with Allen for English title then beat him and beat him again for the US title after Allen had gotten that one. 5 years later drop his US crown to Ryan. World champion.
Tom Allen - WW, MW, HW champion. Both English and American, and the first to use gloves for championship matches. He lost his combined claim to Mace but re-unified them after Mace retired. World Champion x2 - kinda.
Tom Cribb - Learning from Mendoza, Cribb's Captain Barclay brought dieting to training. Cribb was ridiculed for his salads and water over meat and ale, but, once he set to men saw for the first time a real stamina machine of a man. Before Dempsey or Marciano there was Cribb. Also, Cribb is the first World champion. Cribb retires without an official loss. Disputed World champion
Hen Pearce - Unbeaten, retired because of poor health. He was tought to have been the finest defensive fighter of all of BK eras. Also, top notch dude having save a woman from a burning building and stopping a rape. British champion.
Jam Belcher - Retired unbeaten due to losing an eye, un-retired and was beaten in his next fight. Otherwise would have been a totally unbeaten champion. MW and HW champion. British champion
Jake Kilrain - Defeated Godfrey in dubious circumstances, had a decent record dancing with all the top guys. He was a pretty legitimate champion before Sully took it from him. Disputed World champion.
Tom Molyneaux - trained by Bill Richmond and Daniel Mendoza, Tom Molyneaux won his first fight with Cribb and was so screwed over he was even handed his own version of the world title. The World title is born in dispute. Cribb saw the end of it. Moly had good wins before and after but nothing like the time he KO'd Cribb. Disputed World champion.
George Godfrey - Colored champion. Beat Hadley and Smith, lost to Kilrain. Mostly remembered for nearly fighting Sullivan. Was considered a master of defense. Godfrey trained Byers who trained Langford.
James Burke - Was so feared the current champion of his era avoided him to the point where even the champ's backers got frustrated and set up a fight between James and the Irish champion to be held in America. He'd be screwed over by the gang that follow the champion that avoided him and lose two claims to DQ, forced DQ, guns at the ref kinda forced. World champion. World champion
Tom Sayers - Another MW to HW champion. Sayers has one loss, at MW. He drew Heenan for world honors. stacked 14 wins, which is a lot for LPR. Disputed World champion.
Ben Brian - Retired unbeaten due to illness. British champion.
CAC Smith - During his career, Smith defeated such men as Frank Craig, Mervine Thompson, Thomas McAlpine, Black Diamond, Charles Hadley, Steve Taylor, Bill Gabig and Mike Brennan
Charles Hadley - Known for his defense and many, many fights with Grant. Top competitor left out due to skin color. Hadley won several bouts with bare-knuckles and was a clever fighter with gloves; He met all-comers at Harry Hill's in New York for two years and was unbeaten
William Thompson - He both benefitted and was screwed over by the Ward gang that controlled boxing in England in the 1840s. Still, his clean fights are impressive and he never lost his title...all though ever single one of his majors end in foul. When Bendigo beat Burke he hurt himself doing a celebratory backflip which took him out for years and made him lesser on his return. Still, retired on top and as a World champion. It's worth noting the Ward gang never gave Burke his belt but did give it to Thompson when they forced a DQ over Burke. British champion
Harry Broome - A fine record, one of the first to box with gloves, in 7 title fights, which is a lot for BK, he lost 1 then retired. Solid and strong Broome took most advantage of BK's legal wrestling. Not much of a fists man, he's more a tosser (
) British champion.
Joey Beltran - Current PG World Champion
Mark Godbeer - Current BKB British Champion and VBK Tournament Champion
Tom Spring - This man ended the Cribb era practice of outsiders rushing the ring to make sure their local wins. He only ever lost once and the man who beat him promptly retired. Tom Spring never loses his title, but, never won it either. His was handed to him by Cribb. British champion.
John Heenan - Really his best wins are Sayers and Tom King...kinda. Heenan unified the US and Brit title twice. Once when he defeated Sayers, the crowd rushed the ring forcing an end to the contest as Heenan laid Sayers down. This cause an official draw. Later he'd KO King, again for World honors, and again he'd be screwed over by the crowd ring rush. This time the fight continued and King won in the end. Toured with Mace in his retirement to help teach America about boxing. Disputed World champion.
Tom Hyer - From the rough and tumble circuit. Tom Hyer was as much a political movement as he was a champion. American exceptionalism was born in his generation and his Young American moniker was a reflection of this. Tom was declined twice by two different English champions while seeking uni. His best win is Yankee Sullivan, a man who probably should be seen at the first American champion if not for American politics and his being Euro at the time. American champion.
Chase Sherman - Current PG American Champion
I should explain ye olden World title. It doesn't transfer very cleanly often because the World title back then meant the US and English titles combined. When England or America does not agree. So say X is world champion and Y beats him. Y is World champion now right? Not so fast. Only if the US and England still agree. On winning, America may say the fight wasn't good enough and off they pop to crown their own US champion leaving the World and Y champion as just an English or British champion. I use Brit because often the English title has absorbed the other british claims before going to American.
h2h was no considered at all...surely Sully would wallop Danny.
Seems like a lot of under talented and fixed fighting or at least dubious results, but, so did the olden version too.
I have no criteria at the moment, not even got my notes on the boys handy. Just gonna shoot it from the hip and memory.
Daniel Mendoza - LW, WW, MW, and HW champion, granddaddy of boxing defense, marketing, ticket sales, and training. British champion.
John L Sullivan - Legendary Champion. Had a fantastic record for the era but he's kind of stuck between worlds. I've heard people say most of his fights were queensberry. That's not true. I've also heard folks say he was mostly bare knuckle. Also not true. John L was mostly LPR mixed with QB while wearing all sorts of different style of gloves. He's the transition champion and his career reflects that. Was he a great BK champion? Probably considering he actually drew the English for the world title in both sports, but, then lost to the gloved boxer, Corbett, who promptly ended the English dispute in 3. Where as, John L also drew the English claimant for BK. Then he KO'd the man who beat the English champion and reinstate himself as top dog in Bare Knuckle. In gloved boxing, LPR with gloves, QB with a touch of LPR rules, makes no difference, Sully never actually proved he was the best in his era. He did in BK though. World champion x2
Jem Mace - fought all over, has a great record, taught the world how to box and then showed it off, but also, is the first man to successfully defend world honors several times. World champion
Joe Goss - MW and HW champion, lost his Engish recognition to Mace, both the MW and HW titles to Mace. Drew with Allen for English title then beat him and beat him again for the US title after Allen had gotten that one. 5 years later drop his US crown to Ryan. World champion.
Tom Allen - WW, MW, HW champion. Both English and American, and the first to use gloves for championship matches. He lost his combined claim to Mace but re-unified them after Mace retired. World Champion x2 - kinda.
Tom Cribb - Learning from Mendoza, Cribb's Captain Barclay brought dieting to training. Cribb was ridiculed for his salads and water over meat and ale, but, once he set to men saw for the first time a real stamina machine of a man. Before Dempsey or Marciano there was Cribb. Also, Cribb is the first World champion. Cribb retires without an official loss. Disputed World champion
Hen Pearce - Unbeaten, retired because of poor health. He was tought to have been the finest defensive fighter of all of BK eras. Also, top notch dude having save a woman from a burning building and stopping a rape. British champion.
Jam Belcher - Retired unbeaten due to losing an eye, un-retired and was beaten in his next fight. Otherwise would have been a totally unbeaten champion. MW and HW champion. British champion
Jake Kilrain - Defeated Godfrey in dubious circumstances, had a decent record dancing with all the top guys. He was a pretty legitimate champion before Sully took it from him. Disputed World champion.
Tom Molyneaux - trained by Bill Richmond and Daniel Mendoza, Tom Molyneaux won his first fight with Cribb and was so screwed over he was even handed his own version of the world title. The World title is born in dispute. Cribb saw the end of it. Moly had good wins before and after but nothing like the time he KO'd Cribb. Disputed World champion.
George Godfrey - Colored champion. Beat Hadley and Smith, lost to Kilrain. Mostly remembered for nearly fighting Sullivan. Was considered a master of defense. Godfrey trained Byers who trained Langford.
James Burke - Was so feared the current champion of his era avoided him to the point where even the champ's backers got frustrated and set up a fight between James and the Irish champion to be held in America. He'd be screwed over by the gang that follow the champion that avoided him and lose two claims to DQ, forced DQ, guns at the ref kinda forced. World champion. World champion
Tom Sayers - Another MW to HW champion. Sayers has one loss, at MW. He drew Heenan for world honors. stacked 14 wins, which is a lot for LPR. Disputed World champion.
Ben Brian - Retired unbeaten due to illness. British champion.
CAC Smith - During his career, Smith defeated such men as Frank Craig, Mervine Thompson, Thomas McAlpine, Black Diamond, Charles Hadley, Steve Taylor, Bill Gabig and Mike Brennan
Charles Hadley - Known for his defense and many, many fights with Grant. Top competitor left out due to skin color. Hadley won several bouts with bare-knuckles and was a clever fighter with gloves; He met all-comers at Harry Hill's in New York for two years and was unbeaten
William Thompson - He both benefitted and was screwed over by the Ward gang that controlled boxing in England in the 1840s. Still, his clean fights are impressive and he never lost his title...all though ever single one of his majors end in foul. When Bendigo beat Burke he hurt himself doing a celebratory backflip which took him out for years and made him lesser on his return. Still, retired on top and as a World champion. It's worth noting the Ward gang never gave Burke his belt but did give it to Thompson when they forced a DQ over Burke. British champion
Harry Broome - A fine record, one of the first to box with gloves, in 7 title fights, which is a lot for BK, he lost 1 then retired. Solid and strong Broome took most advantage of BK's legal wrestling. Not much of a fists man, he's more a tosser (
) British champion.Joey Beltran - Current PG World Champion
Mark Godbeer - Current BKB British Champion and VBK Tournament Champion
Tom Spring - This man ended the Cribb era practice of outsiders rushing the ring to make sure their local wins. He only ever lost once and the man who beat him promptly retired. Tom Spring never loses his title, but, never won it either. His was handed to him by Cribb. British champion.
John Heenan - Really his best wins are Sayers and Tom King...kinda. Heenan unified the US and Brit title twice. Once when he defeated Sayers, the crowd rushed the ring forcing an end to the contest as Heenan laid Sayers down. This cause an official draw. Later he'd KO King, again for World honors, and again he'd be screwed over by the crowd ring rush. This time the fight continued and King won in the end. Toured with Mace in his retirement to help teach America about boxing. Disputed World champion.
Tom Hyer - From the rough and tumble circuit. Tom Hyer was as much a political movement as he was a champion. American exceptionalism was born in his generation and his Young American moniker was a reflection of this. Tom was declined twice by two different English champions while seeking uni. His best win is Yankee Sullivan, a man who probably should be seen at the first American champion if not for American politics and his being Euro at the time. American champion.
Chase Sherman - Current PG American Champion
I should explain ye olden World title. It doesn't transfer very cleanly often because the World title back then meant the US and English titles combined. When England or America does not agree. So say X is world champion and Y beats him. Y is World champion now right? Not so fast. Only if the US and England still agree. On winning, America may say the fight wasn't good enough and off they pop to crown their own US champion leaving the World and Y champion as just an English or British champion. I use Brit because often the English title has absorbed the other british claims before going to American.
h2h was no considered at all...surely Sully would wallop Danny.
Comment