Who has a better resume, Sugar Ray Leonard or Floyd Mayweather?

[djtmal]

Fight night weight Im talking about.off the top my head.
Castillo he gave 15 lb
Corrales he gave weight to think it was about 8lb .
Oscar he gave 16 lbs too.
Mosley about 5lb.
Cotto about 10lb
Canelo about 18lb .
Hatton he gave 1 lb too on the night, he was 152 Hatton was 153.

Dont get all hung up on the division , like Hatton was a JWW well so was Floyd at the time, real size not division real size, they just fought it out with a 147 weigh-in meaning they made weight real easy, no drying out, in those days 147 was piece of cake for Floyd he consistently made 146 easy for years, then he got older, and built up into the heavier division his body was a hanging on to weight differently than years ago, this process started after the Judah fight .

Floyd as a prime fighter is around 3-5lb bigger than Manny JMM Morales Barrera etc real weight and anywhere from 130 to 147 they will be withing that 3-5 from each other, this group when young and hungry were beasts around 130 and could make great 140 fighters, because they were true greats they went higher but they are all not true WWs.

The next group is Oscar Cotto Mosley Margarito Williams etc that go from 140 to 160 because they have the frame to build on, you can even scale them into 2 groups again if you wanted as you have the same 3-5 swing going on.

These guys are bigger than the first group, but not big enough as to not being able to fight, the first group is pushing sht up hill to go to MW, where Oscar Margo Williams can, this is the real world size difference in play nothing to do with division just real weight .

Divisions are just a scale to organize a bunch into a few rounding off weight , its not declaring some great advantage or disadvantage, that is subjective on who are the fighters, a fighters best boxing ability weight wise generally can merge 2 weight classes.

The great Tommy Hearns is a giant for making WW thats why he was able to go to Cruiser he had a large frame , imagine Manny or Floyd going to cruiser lol they just dont have the frame they would look like melons with a cherry on top.

I tell you what , Floyd would KO Leonard at 130 lbs, so would Manny and they could both KO Hearns the following weekend,,,at 130 pounds !

Now at 147 they both probably KO Manny and Floyd, this sht is exactly why Im always on about fight night weights, it critical as far as the combat in the ring goes .

Fans argue about hype, titles, gloves, shoes, divisions, they not arguing the real fight, and what it all means to the fighter on fight night be like a pro punter arguing about saddles and horseshoes.

I think to be fair to any fighter is to compare them at their personal best fighting weight, any other view is distorted in some way, if you want to argue great fighters head to head they got to be from the same real weight, other wise someone is at distinct disadvantage .

You know what it is too, about these two cats,
both of them are all-time greats, but the difference is, Sugar Ray, already cemented himself as an atg by beating the guys he needed to beat, when everbody was prime and left no stones unturned. Before he cherrypicked Hearns in that rematch, and Duran for the 3rd time, and Lalonde. Floyd didn't. He just did not man. Seemed like after Hatton, he started cherrypicking before he really cemented anything. Manny, Shane, Cotto, Oscar, you can't use those guys because all those guys were shopworn, and Floyd had the advantage of being less shopworn than any of those guys. Sugar Ray, waited out one guy, Hagler, for comparison's sake, and everybody else was pretty much peak versions. Duran was still a beast when he fought Sugar, and Sugar didn't wait this guy out. To me, thats the difference right there.

[Reloaded]

You know what it is too, about these two cats,
both of them are all-time greats, but the difference is, Sugar Ray, already cemented himself as an atg by beating the guys he needed to beat, when everbody was prime and left no stones unturned. Before he cherrypicked Hearns in that rematch, and Duran for the 3rd time, and Lalonde. Floyd didn't. He just did not man. Seemed like after Hatton, he started cherrypicking before he really cemented anything. Manny, Shane, Cotto, Oscar, you can't use those guys because all those guys were shopworn, and Floyd had the advantage of being less shopworn than any of those guys. Sugar Ray, waited out one guy, Hagler, for comparison's sake, and everybody else was pretty much peak versions. Duran was still a beast when he fought Sugar, and Sugar didn't wait this guy out. To me, thats the difference right there.

Hagler wasnt prime, Duran was but was above his best weight and Tommy was prime, TH was a monster WW, Ray Leonard was full blown WW Floyd wasnt,

Lalonde was a BS fight he was drained near as bad as Oscar was, dont get me wrong Leonard was great I think he beats Floyd at WW, Floyd kills him below WW .

As you say cementing legacy, at the end of the day that end up nothing but opinion that fans argue about, we have no defining anything for boxing thats why I try not to compare different eras and weight classes etc , it all skewed nobody is wrong nobody is right.

[Jubei]

Why do you care about resume so much? Do you watch fights on a sheet of paper or do you actually go to fights or watch them on TV? It matters how somebody fights and how he wins way more than putting up a boring performance again and again. Floyd used to be entertaining in the lower weights and later changed into a boring safety first fighter who took zero risks. Leonard - over his whole career - took risks and brought us entertaining fights. People showed up because they loved Ray, most people showed up for Floyd fights because they wanted to see him lose.

[Reloaded]

Why do you care about resume so much? Do you watch fights on a sheet of paper or do you actually go to fights or watch them on TV? It matters how somebody fights and how he wins way more than putting up a boring performance again and again. Floyd used to be entertaining in the lower weights and later changed into a boring safety first fighter who took zero risks. Leonard - over his whole career - took risks and brought us entertaining fights. People showed up because they loved Ray, most people showed up for Floyd fights because they wanted to see him lose.

Now that depends on how you view boxing, on display is great skills and great heart and a blending of both, its all about what you see.

The more one understands boxing as an art the more one can appreciate the quality of Floyd Jnr at his peak, anybody can come out swinging but to combine it all into an elite surgeon is a thing of beauty, Floyds balance, distance control and mental speed is unworldly, to parrot a guy, " Floyd is a multi millionaire that trains like he is busted ass broke " its takes a lot of things aligned to churn out a Mayweather, it what allowed him to go as far as he did, he didnt fight bums he beat the best guys of his era and that gets lost in all the BS being sprayed by casual fans that dont even know what it is they looking at, or what kind of mind set it takes to perform at that level for that long.

Boxing has a group of immortals that are in the top 10% of the sport, many have come and many more yet to be seen, Floyd is one of them.

[Elroy The Great]

Floyd gets his hands injected to numb them to fight once a year in the end, these guys never threw tantrums about what gloves their opponent wore, these guys never had the nutritional advantage floyd did, Robinson was always on the road fighting all over the country, floyd stuck to Vegas, you really picked a good avatar to represent the real you,

may fought longer than srl
had a much longer run than srl
thanks for avoiding 99 % of the comment you quoted

[Elroy The Great]

Did floyd say he wasn't coming out to fight maidana if maidana wore horse hair gloves which were passed by the association, yes or no, did floyd drag canelo under the weight limit, yes or no, does floyd get injections to numb his hands before he fights, yes or no, was floyd allowed to use an IV, yes or no, was floyd made to fight his mandatories, yes or no, your an ignorant moron

wanna know how you can tell a fanboy is frustrated ?!?!? they name call and have a public temper tantrum !

[Elroy The Great]

Why do you care about resume so much?

PTI.....

ones resume is PROOF that he is either an ATG, average joe or a bumbeater. did you happen to see the title of this thread ?!?!?!

[Johnwoo8686]

Are you paying attention man I said Thomas hearns @ welterweight atg forget top ten he's probably top 5. He was #4 on the list I provided.

Naw, if Floyd had the 2009 version of Pacquaio, that would be different. THAT would have been special. Pacqauaio had already been ko'd by Marquez, Marquez is a Hof'er not all time great and Floyd dragged him up two divisions. Nothing special. Just too little too late. Floyd's best guys were just too shopworn by the time he fought them. Alvarez, I don't see Alvarez having that great of a career that suggests Floyd trumps The Sugar Man. I can't blame you Floyd boys for trying though. Lol

In an earlier post you called Hearns an ATG, not only an ATG welterweight, but an ATG period. Maybe you forgot to put welterweight afterwards. So yes I'm paying attention. And this thread isn't about who had the greater career at welterweight it is about who had the better resume/career in total. Which many would agree was Floyd for all the criteria I mentioned earlier.

And how does Floyd get little credit for beating a lightweight who moved up two divisions but Sugar Ray gets a ton of credit for losing to a lightweight who moved up who divisions then only winning by way of rematch? Remember Floyd was a smaller guy who also moved up while Leonard began his career at welterweight and LOST to a smaller guy.

[Rome-By-Ko]

Now that depends on how you view boxing, on display is great skills and great heart and a blending of both, its all about what you see.

The more one understands boxing as an art the more one can appreciate the quality of Floyd Jnr at his peak, anybody can come out swinging but to combine it all into an elite surgeon is a thing of beauty, Floyds balance, distance control and mental speed is unworldly, to parrot a guy, " Floyd is a multi millionaire that trains like he is busted ass broke " its takes a lot of things aligned to churn out a Mayweather, it what allowed him to go as far as he did, he didnt fight bums he beat the best guys of his era and that gets lost in all the BS being sprayed by casual fans that dont even know what it is they looking at, or what kind of mind set it takes to perform at that level for that long.

Boxing has a group of immortals that are in the top 10% of the sport, many have come and many more yet to be seen, Floyd is one of them.

I agree with your whole post and i would not arugue with anyone who said they feel like Floyd is a top 10 atg..I would not put him there but i would not arugue it either..

Yet I still can't see his resume as being better the SRL or him being a better fighter..Maybe cause I don't feel he ever beat a fighter on the level of SRL or even himself for that matter..As good as Pac was I don't believe he was on the level of Floyd tbh..

[!! Shawn]

Exactly. This takes away from SRL. Facing an older, smaller Duran. And man we have to treat these fighters the same. I can give Duran tons of credit for going up and facing bigger men. The problem is no one ever gave Floyd credit for it!

But we have to remember, Duran, went up in weight and lost allot. While Floyd, despite being too old and small, HUMILIATED men. He shouldnt even be able to win, but his skills was so much on another level, that he made it look like childsplay.

Their is no fighter in history that could be at Floyd's circumstantial disadvantages, and dominate the way he did!

This takes away from SRL when Floyd waited for his Duran to get knocked out and turn 36 before he fought him?