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Old 11-24-2019, 09:40 AM #41
QueensburyRules QueensburyRules is online now
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Originally Posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
A Muay Thai stylist makes mincemeat out of most karate guys in a a streetfight. The K-1 tournaments pretty much settled the issue: in a punching and kicking contest kickboxing comes out on top.

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Old 11-24-2019, 10:30 AM #42
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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I love this sh.it

No steroids!

Great reflexes, great sense of timing.

Look at their stances at modern MMA fighters.

Muay Thai and Boxing are legit. You need those skills, but more and more we are finding they're faaar too attenuated. They come with unnecessary baggage.

If you look at early Boxing, you see they had stances closer to karate bros.
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:36 AM #43
Rusty Tromboni Rusty Tromboni is offline
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Originally Posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
A Muay Thai stylist makes mincemeat out of most karate guys in a a streetfight. The K-1 tournaments pretty much settled the issue: in a punching and kicking contest kickboxing comes out on top.
LOL, Thai Boxers are puzzies.

I can tell you how many of those phaggytz I smashed in my day.

Oh cool, thai boxers can kick bamboo in half? Try kicking me in halg while I suplex you.

They ate the Alpo too.

Anyway, how well did Aldo do against McGregor?

How well did Silva do against weidman (histrainer started out in Karate)?

Who did better against Couture than Liddell and Machida?

How well did anyone do against St. Pierre?



Have you ever seen anyone better than Shahbazayan at this age?
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Old 11-24-2019, 10:53 AM #44
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Originally Posted by Rusty Tromboni View Post
LOL, Thai Boxers are puzzies.

I can tell you how many of those phaggytz I smashed in my day.

Oh cool, thai boxers can kick bamboo in half? Try kicking me in halg while I suplex you.

They ate the Alpo too.

Anyway, how well did Aldo do against McGregor?

How well did Silva do against weidman (histrainer started out in Karate)?

Who did better against Couture than Liddell and Machida?

How well did anyone do against St. Pierre?



Have you ever seen anyone better than Shahbazayan at this age?
Why are you talking MMA garbage or wrestling? Nobody was discussing rolling around on the floor with other men and playing grab ass.

In a punching and kicking contest like K-1 the Muay Thai fighters or kickboxers come out on top over karate guys the vast majority of the time.

If you want to allow elbows as well than the Thai fighters will dominate even more. It is what it is.

Last edited by ShoulderRoll; 11-24-2019 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 12:02 PM #45
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I remember reading in Black Belt magazine back in the 80s about full contact matches in Hong Kong. Not "kumite" in re Bloodsport but looks to be the real deal. Kicking an opponent while down was within the rules.

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Old 11-24-2019, 03:38 PM #46
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Many fighters went into those with no common sense. Its never been about style. If I told someone who was a great chef to go in to a fine patiserie and make scrumptious pastry, I dare say he would not declare "no problem i can cook how hard can this baking thing be?" Yet so many guys who never practiced a grapple in their lives did the equivalent. Of course the grapplers figured out pretty quickly that they could grab a striker before a striker could get set to catch them, if they just went in properly and the rest is history.

Besides what people forget is that telling a "striker" your going into a ring with refs, will make him mostly nervous. Tell that same striker 'see that guy across from you? he likes to rape little girls like your daughter and he has plans for her.' i can guarantee that you would see a qualitative difference in how the striker approached the grappler...there would be a lot more hits, hits to the back and neck when grabbed, bites, and...well you get the picture.

tournaments are social contracts. They are not the same as fighting for your life, or to protect those you love...some of the skills do overlap, but there are differences the way your body moves, responds, etc.
True, but the crazy thing about those early tournaments was they actually allowed hits to the back and neck, plus the back of the head. Basically the ref only stopped the fight then. That's why most states didn't sanction those tournaments. The guys that put them together didn't want any of the fighters to be able to have any complaints so that they could use any of their techniques and wanted to make it as close to a street fight as possible. Strikers eventually adapted though, as you saw in later fights, when they learned a thing called takedown defense.

Last edited by Anthony342; 11-25-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 11-24-2019, 03:42 PM #47
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Originally Posted by billeau2 View Post
Many fighters went into those with no common sense. Its never been about style. If I told someone who was a great chef to go in to a fine patiserie and make scrumptious pastry, I dare say he would not declare "no problem i can cook how hard can this baking thing be?" Yet so many guys who never practiced a grapple in their lives did the equivalent. Of course the grapplers figured out pretty quickly that they could grab a striker before a striker could get set to catch them, if they just went in properly and the rest is history.

Besides what people forget is that telling a "striker" your going into a ring with refs, will make him mostly nervous. Tell that same striker 'see that guy across from you? he likes to rape little girls like your daughter and he has plans for her.' i can guarantee that you would see a qualitative difference in how the striker approached the grappler...there would be a lot more hits, hits to the back and neck when grabbed, bites, and...well you get the picture.

tournaments are social contracts. They are not the same as fighting for your life, or to protect those you love...some of the skills do overlap, but there are differences the way your body moves, responds, etc.
You just reminded me of something else. I think Dolph Lundgren got the part in Rocky 4 because he not only had the look Stallone wanted, but had a background in full contact karate matches, so Sly knew Lundgren could handle the fight scene for the movie. Then in Creed 2, Dolph had more lines and his acting actually got better. Who knew?
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:22 PM #48
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Originally Posted by Anthony342 View Post
True, but the crazy thing about those early tournaments was they actually allowed hits to the back and neck, plus the back of the head. Basically the ref only stopped the fight then. That's why most states didn't sanction those tournaments. The guys that put them together didn't want any of the fighters to be able to have any complaints though that they couldn't use any of their techniques and wanted to make it as close to a street fight as possible. Strikers eventually adapted though, as you saw in later fights, when they learned a thing called takedown defense.
The early UFC? Thats interesting. I do remember watching two fat guys trying to face claw each other, lol. All these things need to have a trial and error period, to see what works and what is not workable.
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:24 PM #49
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Originally Posted by Anthony342 View Post
You just reminded me of something else. I think Dolph Lundgren got the part in Rocky 4 because he not only had the look Stallone wanted, but had a background in full contact karate matches, so Sly knew Lundgren could handle the fight scene for the movie. Then in Creed 2, Dolph had more lines and his acting actually got better. Who knew?
You know the movie the wanderers? There is a gigantic, fierce looking guy. You would recognize him in an instant: The guy is a professional opera singer, had an IQ of over 160 or so... lol, same kind of thing.
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:32 PM #50
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Originally Posted by ShoulderRoll View Post
A Muay Thai stylist makes mincemeat out of most karate guys in a a streetfight. The K-1 tournaments pretty much settled the issue: in a punching and kicking contest kickboxing comes out on top.
A lot of what claims to be karate is simply not karate. Again, if they are bouncing up and down they are not karate.

Show me a match where a guy who trains in a style of karate where fighting is the norm, as many of my generation did, againt another who is fighting using another style...I have not seen it. and all these derivative styles are wonderful...but they are not the same.

I will give a similar argument for Thai boxers. Show me a match where a professional Thai Fighter fought against another stylist. Not some guy who claims to be a Thai fighter, a Thai fighter from one of the training halls, who is in prime.

What you see is very prejudiced about these fights... They usually settle issues that are unintended. For example, professional MMA is not about ANY style, it is about using techniques suitable for the ring in an MMA contest.
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