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Old 11-16-2019, 11:42 AM #51
CauliflowerEars CauliflowerEars is offline
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
Evolution says nothing about God.

Anyone is free to believe God is behind evolution if they choose.
But its not part of the theory.
Yes sir. Agreed...
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:44 AM #52
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Originally Posted by JJRod View Post
There is almost never 100% conclusive evidence. For that juryís would have to have video evidence of the murder taking place.
That's why there are people wrongfully imprisoned every year. Anywhere from 2 to 5 percent.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:49 AM #53
JJRod JJRod is offline
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
There is no strawman argument. The big bang theory actually is taught in schools. The theory of evolution is taught in schools. To my knowledge, these theories haven't been verified. That's why I said, "maybe I missed those experiments..." Additionally, there are volumes of books that are science based in support of theism. And quite frankly, it seems like you're playing a bullsheit semantics game, because I never attributed origin of matter to the theory of evolution.

I'm not a scientist, but I have to imagine there is some way to demonstrate in a controlled environment that a system that is designed would be more efficient, and more likely to succeed, than one that is left to nothing but randomness.
To your knowledge they havenít been tested and verified, but they have been gloveking. Multiple times. If they hadnít then the theories would have been dismissed years ago. They have been tested and peer reviewed by others multiple times and each time they verify the findings. This is what makes them scientific theories. This is WHY theyíre taught in schools.

Theyíre taught along other theories like the theory of gravity, relativity, germ theory and dozens of others that have also been peered reviewed, tested and verified the same way the Big Bang and evolution have been tested. Itís funny how itís only the theories that question your religious interpretation of life that you seem to think are none sense.
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:01 PM #54
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Originally Posted by JJRod View Post
Okay Jim let me explain. When you say life is created through birth this can be verified because we know the components needed to create that life. We know how those components come together and using them we can apply the scientific method to test and verify. This applies to vegetation as well.

We can’t do this with Intelligent Design and other such theories.

It may very well be that an intelligent designer set the laws of physics in motion that created everything, BUT there is no evidence that allows us to test this and verify it. If it can’t be tested using the scientific method it shouldn’t be placed in the same arena as theories that can.

If you landed on a planet many years in the future that was inhabited by nothing but robots, would you assume that they evolved or someone created them? If an alien landed on our planet many years in the future where humanity has died out and there is no trace left of us, all that is left is the AI robots that we created, would the Alien think that robots evolved into robots, or were created?
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:19 PM #55
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Originally Posted by JimRaynor View Post
If you landed on a planet many years in the future that was inhabited by nothing but robots, would you assume that they evolved or someone created them? If an alien landed on our planet many years in the future where humanity has died out and there is no trace left of us, all that is left is the AI robots that we created, would the Alien think that robots evolved into robots, or were created?
Jim the thing is science doesnít assume. If I showed up at a planet what I assume of it is irrelevant.
Iíd have to be guided by the evidence and empirical facts if I wanted an answer.
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:33 PM #56
JJRod JJRod is offline
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Originally Posted by The Noose View Post
My bias is im an atheist.
Gotta be candid about our biases me thinks.

And it seems to me that it would be a good idea or maybe extremely important, for all schools to discuss at length the definition of 'the scientific method'.
It seems that so many of us are unclear what is actually regarded as "science". What is meant by "observations" and "facts" and "theories".
What does "scientific theory" actually mean as oppose to "theory".

People get into these debates about beliefs and faith when it has little to do with the actual science. But it shouldnt be dismissed because religious faith is obviously an issue that clashes with what they are taught in science class.

They should discuss if science is actually about 100% proof or not, and whether faith influences scientific theories.
Or is the scientific method successful in countering our personal biases?
Can we rely on peer review and how that all works.
Is there a better system?
I think they should address the flaws and make the nuts and bolts of science more transparent.

Too many people think of science as some imposing authority. Telling us what to believe.

So people can question the science they are taught to learn how those theories formed, but to dismiss them because it conflicts with a persons religious beliefs, isnt scientific.

Beliefs arent evidence.
They only have a problem with the theories that question their religious belief. You donít see them questioning the theory of gravity or electromagnetism. Even though they were derived using the same method as the others.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:14 PM #57
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Originally Posted by CauliflowerEars View Post
I hear what you are saying and think you're absolutely correct.

Have you ever seen or heard this regarding Darwin ? >>>:



Now, do you see anything about SCIENCE in this statement ?
NO, you see a Darwin's rejection of the bible based on his being ACCOUNTABLE to God.

What Darwin understood was, that IF he could somehow free himself from the biblical account of creation then that would be enough to free himself from the biblical account of DAMNATION.
If there was no Adam then there was no original sin. If there was no original sin, then he can not be held accountable for that sin and therefore, no damnation or accountability for sin. If you do not need to be saved from sin then why do you need a Savior ?

We have now learned that Darwin's reason for his endeavor to construct his, Theory of Evolution has Nothing to do with SCIENCE.

This is why the unbelieving world CLINGS to the doctrine of evolution - because it is a tool which can be used to justify rejection of a Creator.
The atheist cry for evidence is a ruse. The truth is, no evidence will suffice for the committed atheist as the real reason for rejection of God, is the same as Charles Darwin - ACCOUNTABILITY for ones actions...

Darwin thought only with the natural mind for a very long time. Apparently, he thought it foolish that he and those close to him, could receive everlasting punishment, while his own wife inherited Heaven and eternal riches. I find this to be a suitable example of how the wise man of this world ( the natural mind ), with his pride of great carnal reasoning, is in opposition to the sanctified mind, which discerns the real beauties of holiness.
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Old 11-16-2019, 03:57 PM #58
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Originally Posted by JJRod View Post
To your knowledge they havenít been tested and verified, but they have been gloveking. Multiple times. If they hadnít then the theories would have been dismissed years ago. They have been tested and peer reviewed by others multiple times and each time they verify the findings. This is what makes them scientific theories. This is WHY theyíre taught in schools.

Theyíre taught along other theories like the theory of gravity, relativity, germ theory and dozens of others that have also been peered reviewed, tested and verified the same way the Big Bang and evolution have been tested. Itís funny how itís only the theories that question your religious interpretation of life that you seem to think are none sense.
There is a distinction between theories and laws in science. Evolution, big bang, and relativity are theories. Gravity, thermodynamics, and physics are laws. Laws have been proven, while theories have not.

This distinction is at the core of my argument. A theory should not be taught as law, and any other plausible theory should not be dismissed.
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Old 11-16-2019, 04:47 PM #59
JJRod JJRod is offline
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Originally Posted by GGG Gloveking View Post
There is a distinction between theories and laws in science. Evolution, big bang, and relativity are theories. Gravity, thermodynamics, and physics are laws. Laws have been proven, while theories have not.

This distinction is at the core of my argument. A theory should not be taught as law, and any other plausible theory should not be dismissed.

In the same way you were confusing the theory of evolution and the Big Bang, you seem to be confusing scientific theory and every day use of theory.
You also seem confused as to the distinction between scientific theories and laws in science, and how each of them are taught. Gravity for example is both a theory and a law. There is the law of gravity and the theory of gravitation. You’re determined to argue them, but it’s clear from your post that you don’t really understand them.


Theories should be dismissed if they cannot be tested and peered reviewed for verification. The theories that can be peered reviewed, tested and verified should be taught!
Despite your clear lack of comprehension of them; both the theory or Evolution and the Big Bang theory have been studied, tested and verified hundreds of times by various scientist. It is why it’s taught in school.

Last edited by JJRod; 11-16-2019 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 11-16-2019, 06:30 PM #60
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Originally Posted by JJRod View Post
In the same way you were confusing the theory of evolution and the Big Bang, you seem to be confusing scientific theory and every day use of theory.
You also seem confused as to the distinction between scientific theories and laws in science, and how each of them are taught. Gravity for example is both a theory and a law. There is the law of gravity and the theory of gravitation. Youíre determined to argue them, but itís clear from your post that you donít really understand them.


Theories should be dismissed if they cannot be tested and peered reviewed for verification. The theories that can be peered reviewed, tested and verified should be taught!
Despite your clear lack of comprehension of them; both the theory or Evolution and the Big Bang theory have been studied, tested and verified hundreds of times by various scientist. It is why itís taught in school.
This is all I'm seeing. You asserting intellectual superiority, insulting my comprehension, and yet not bringing forth any actual facts to support either.

Now, let me ask you this. You just said that both the theory of evolution and the big bang theory have been tested hundreds of times and conclusively proven. So, why is it such an offense, as you've noted over and over, for me to cite from both when talking about science? Are they exclusive of one another? Is one of them not valid science? What is the problem, and what's the need for, severance between the two of them?
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