Sub 200 lb fighters with best chance to upset Prime Holmes/Ali

[uncle ben]

Which under 200 pound fighters would have the best chance of causing an upset against a prime Holmes or prime Ali? I didn't say that could be favored over them, but the fighters who would have a better chance than most in causing an upset?

I'd put Ezzard Charles and Rocky Marciano on top of that list. Any others?

[Joe Beamish]

Holyfield.

Agree with Marciano.

[OCPancho]

Jack Dempsey

[Joe Beamish]

Jack Dempsey

He just never fought anyone remotely similar to Ali or Holmes, so it’s hard to say he’d have a good chance in my view. Had a very tough time with Tunney, though admittedly a bit past his prime.

I like Dempsey though. He received such glowing accolades from some great boxing minds such as Tunney himself and Ray Arcel. I just don’t love his competition when compared to Ali/Holmes.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

He just never fought anyone remotely similar to Ali or Holmes, so it’s hard to say he’d have a good chance in my view. Had a very tough time with Tunney, though admittedly a bit past his prime.

I like Dempsey though. He received such glowing accolades from some great boxing minds such as Tunney himself and Ray Arcel. I just don’t love his competition when compared to Ali/Holmes.

Tunney had faster feet than both and better skills than Holmes. Dempsey's legs were pretty much done for in his fights with Tunney. Notice how he bends at the waist and doesn't have the spring in his legs like he did against Firpo or anyone he fought in his prime. That's just one tell.

[Joe Beamish]

Tunney had faster feet than both and better skills than Holmes....

Tunney was very skilled and mobile, but he did not have faster feet than Ali. Or even close.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Tunney was very skilled and mobile, but he did not have faster feet than Ali. Or even close.

He most certainly did. Tunney was 190 lbs at heavyweight, Ali was 215. Two ring generals like this and the smaller guy is going to be quicker of both hand and foot.

When people say Ali had the speed of a lightweight they don't mean he literally was as fast as lightweights. He was just way faster than any heavyweight at that time and one of the fastest in history of the heavyweight division.

[HOUDINI563]

In actuality a lighter, great hwt is what it would take to beat Ali. Ali feasted on the slower larger more powerful opponents. So Dempsey, Tunney, Louis and Marciano would all have excellent opportunities. Each ATG fighters with ATG attributes. One point about Dempsey is that he was a FAR greater fighter than Frazier and Joe gave Ali hell. Dempsey with his speed, deceptive defense and two fisted KO power would be 50/50 pickem vs Ali.

[Joe Beamish]

Dempsey struggled against twitchy, fast fighters. Ali had more stick-n-move than anybody Dempsey faced.

Marciano would likely stay up in Ali’s chest and do some real damage. I don’t see any films of Dempsey showing an activity level that’s furious enough to wear down Ali. He just didn’t face anybody with that kind of speed and movement.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Dempsey struggled against twitchy, fast fighters. Ali had more stick-n-move than anybody Dempsey faced.

Marciano would likely stay up in Ali’s chest and do some real damage. I don’t see any films of Dempsey showing an activity level that’s furious enough to wear down Ali. He just didn’t face anybody with that kind of speed and movement.

Dempsey won a wide decision against a tough, defensive wizard in Tommy Gibbons.