Better Resume Sugar Ray Leonard or Roberto Duran?

[Steak]

Have you actually seen either fight? Duran didn't win more than three rounds in either fight.He put up a much better effort than most would have thought capable in the first fight,but in no way did he deserve the decision. Ill have to sit down and score it eventually one day when I have a lot of free time.



Vinny Pazienza clearly beat Duran the first time around,but that didn't stop them having an immediate rematch.

I have seen the first fight, yes, and although I have not scored it round by round it certainly looked as if Duran was landing the better shots, although in no way was it a domination.

and what are you talking about? its very arguable that Duran won the first Pazienza fight.

[D4thincarnation]

the rematch was about 6 months from their 1st fight....thats not really that quick, especially in those days. you're having delusions. & in the rematch reberto got out classed.... I had reberto 4 rounds down & it was getting worser & worser as sugar just started pocketing rounds. thats why duran quit because it started to look hopeless.

the 1st fight sugar fought durans style & the fight was close. it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that if sugar moved on duran he would beat him.

he did just that in the reamatch & the syles didn't work out for duran. if sugar fought like that he would almost always have beaten duran if he brawled with duran he would almost always lose.....

Two of the judges had SRL two rounds up the other judge had SRL one round up.

Running around the ring throwing bolo punches every now and again ain't a great performance.

[americanbot]

Two of the judges had SRL two rounds up the other judge had SRL one round up.

Running around the ring throwing bolo punches every now and again ain't a great performance.

i had Leonard up by 4 rounds.... it was a schooling. running & throwing bolo punches killed poor duran. so much so that it became hopeless & duran quit....

[Steak]

1st of all, heres the argument......."does duran have a better resume then sugar" I SAY NO. lets look at this. Guts Ishimatsu had been knocked out & was no more when he fought reberto. i don't see that as a great win. the same goes for Saoul Mamby....I don't connect greatness through triangle theories. i connect greatness by OTHER ATG opponents that one has fought (and the way that they beat them) no 1 said that duran isn't great you moron. I said that duran resume isn't better then sugars & i ALSO said that duran would not have a respectable ATG ranking if you are to just go by his lightweight resume alone. A very GOOD Lightweight resume but not a respectable all around ATG ranking.....(certainly not top 20) & thats because the level of opposition was far greater then what he was fighting at lightweight when he moved up. also the barkley win was good but i told you i go by how the fighter looked. duran barely beat barkley in fact there could be a argument made that barkley won.....the fab four is based on who was the better fighter of that bunch (all of them fought each other) so you don't have to go to imaginary triangle theories with that one. duran is the weakest link. he beat sugar but it was close & he clearly lost the rematch.

back to topic. heres some good wins of why i think sugar has the better resume over duran.

duran
hearns (i thought he was prime even at weltwerweight. hearns would be a nightmare for todays welterweights to deal with) the weight excuse is grossly over exaggerated just like the duran rematch. a UNDEFEATED hearns may i add.
hagler
Benitez (who was undefeated)
Lalonde (who was a champion)
Ayub Kalule (who was undefeated & was a champion)

I could go on but i am ready to end this message. heres the thing. he beat EVERYONE that was apart of the fab 4. (he's the only one out of the bunch to do it) and he beat a ton of top "honorable mentions" of that era, such as a undefeated Benitez. there is no doubt in my mind that sugar has a better resume then duran thats even with durans more fights.

also before you try to correct my typos LEARN to spell "word" not WORLD....

Guts was 'no more' when he fought Duran? he went on to win a lightweight title over Rodolfo Gonzalez within a year after losing to Duran, and then beat Gonzalez again and Ken Buchanan(HOF). getting knocked out earlier in your career doesnt mean anything. I could go on forever about ATGs that were knocked out early in their careers, doesnt make them ****ty fighters.

Mamby got robbed against 140lb champ Muangsurin less than a year and a half after Duran beat him. Its a quality win, although not necessarily the best version of Mamby.

Duran would easily be an ATG if all he had was his lightweight record. He was 62-1 and had been ruling the division for 6 years, beating all the top opponents...many of which ended up being champions(or were champions previously) themselves at featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, and light welterweight. (DeJesus, Kobayashi, Marcel, Buchanan, Mamby, Ishimatsu).
By all means, name me 20 lightweights who had accomplished more than Duran did.

Duran was the natural smallest AND oldest of the bunch. He wasnt supposed to beat any of them. the fact he beat the second best Weltweight of all time is unreal.

now I dont mind you saying that Leonard has a better record than Duran: thats debatable. but youre just flat out wrong in a lot of what you have to say, and I thought I should correct it.

also me typing world instead of word is a mistype, not a spelling error. l is right underneath o, after all.

[D4thincarnation]

i had Leonard up by 4 rounds.... it was a schooling. running & throwing bolo punches killed poor duran. so much so that it became hopeless & duran quit....

I had SRL two round up, and it was clear to see that the Duran that night was not the same Duran that fought in the first fight.

Do you think Duran was at 100% for the second fight?

[prinzemanspopa]

Yeah Leonard is not a credible source, you have been shown up at least have the dignity to admit you are wrong.

You are just embarrassing.

Carry on burying your head in the sand.

So now you've backed away from the ridiculous claim that Duran gained eighty pounds in just over two months,huh? So not only are you incredibly stupid and gullible,but you're also a coward.Doesn't seem like you had much confidence in your own source in the first place,does it?



Duran never gained anything close to the 40 or 50 pounds that Leonard claimed.Duran gaining weight in-between fights was common knowledge - that's as much Leonard knew.He had absolute no way of knowing anything outside of that.So continue to cling onto that as your pitiful argument continues to get picked apart.



I suggest you do some actual research beyond youtube and educate yourself by actually reading articles and sources from the actual build-up.In doing so,you'll actually learn that Duran was just seventeen pounds over the welterweight limit with two and a half months before the actual rematch.

and what are you talking about? its very arguable that Duran won the first Pazienza fight.

Based on a highlight clip? Sure.On an actual round-by-round basis,Duran's punch output was very low and Pazienza outworked him in every single round.

[D4thincarnation]

So now you've backed away from the ridiculous claim that Duran gained eighty pounds in just over two months,huh? So not only are you incredibly stupid and gullible,but you're also a coward.Doesn't seem like you had much confidence in your own source in the first place,does it?



Duran never gained anything close to the 40 or 50 pounds that Leonard claimed.Duran gaining weight in-between fights was common knowledge - that's as much Leonard knew.He had absolute no way of knowing anything outside of that.So continue to cling onto that as your pitiful argument continues to get picked apart.





I suggest you do some actual research beyond youtube and educate yourself by actually reading articles and sources from the actual build-up.In doing so,you'll actually learn that Duran was just seventeen pounds over the welterweight limit with two and a half months before the actual rematch.








Based on a highlight clip? Sure.On an actual round-by-round basis,Duran's punch output was very low and Pazienza outworked him in every single round.

I believe I said over 200lbs, seems like maths like boxing ain't you strong point either.

Two months would have been training camp, so he was already losing the weight.


Can you provide any evidence for you claim of Duran's weight during those 6 months?

Ricky Hatton would also balloon up to around 200 lbs inbetween fight, but I guess you don't believe that as well.


Do you really think Duran was anyone near 100% in the 2nd fight?

See if you can answer that one honestly.

You really are a tool when presented with the facts you just deny them.

I guess there is no hope for you.

[americanbot]

Guts was 'no more' when he fought Duran? he went on to win a lightweight title over Rodolfo Gonzalez within a year after losing to Duran, and then beat Gonzalez again and Ken Buchanan(HOF). getting knocked out earlier in your career doesnt mean anything. I could go on forever about ATGs that were knocked out early in their careers, doesnt make them ****ty fighters.

Mamby got robbed against 140lb champ Muangsurin less than a year and a half after Duran beat him. Its a quality win, although not necessarily the best version of Mamby.

Duran would easily be an ATG if all he had was his lightweight record. He was 62-1 and had been ruling the division for 6 years, beating all the top opponents...many of which ended up being champions(or were champions previously) themselves at featherweight, super featherweight, lightweight, and light welterweight. (DeJesus, Kobayashi, Marcel, Buchanan, Mamby, Ishimatsu).
By all means, name me 20 lightweights who had accomplished more than Duran did.

Duran was the natural smallest AND oldest of the bunch. He wasnt supposed to beat any of them. the fact he beat the second best Weltweight of all time is unreal.

now I dont mind you saying that Leonard has a better record than Duran: thats debatable. but youre just flat out wrong in a lot of what you have to say, and I thought I should correct it.

also me typing world instead of word is a mistype, not a spelling error. l is right underneath o, after all.

Ishimatsu was done when he fought duran. he may have had good decision wins here & there but it doesn't take away from the fact that he was done.....how can that be hard to understand? the same goes for Mamby. good to average wins doesn't = not being shot. mosley beat myorga it's a good win but it didn't mean he wasn't shot.

also i said that duran would not have a respectable ATG ranking just on his lightweight resume alone. (no where near top 30 or top 20 ATG) you're bringing up topics on top of OTHER topics that have nothing to do with what I'm typing.

thats how you get into more & more unrelated debates....

look kid. you keep complaining that duran was the oldest of the bunch & the smallest (BTW he wasn't smaller then Leonard when they fought) YOU ARE SO BIASED that you don't even realize that it benefited reberto against Leonard to be older. in those first 2 fights you saw a young BOY take on a seasoned MAN in his prime (duran)

[Steak]

Based on a highlight clip? Sure. On an actual round-by-round basis,Duran's punch output was very low and Pazienza outworked him in every single round.

no, I dont score rounds on a highlight clip, but Ive heard plenty of people that state that Duran deserved the decision in the bout. not necessarily that that automatically means he deserved it, but outworking someone doesnt mean you win the round by any means, especially when Duran was pretty obviously landing the cleaner blows and controlling the fight with his jab.

a lot of the punches Pazienza was landing were simply shoeshine ones, and a good majority of them missed or were blocked as well. Duran was landing plenty of clean body shots too.

[americanbot]

I had SRL two round up, and it was clear to see that the Duran that night was not the same Duran that fought in the first fight.

Do you think Duran was at 100% for the second fight?

yes i think duran was at 100%....i don't buy the whole he was drained beyond realty argument. he just got outclassed.....I could see duran being down by 5 rounds actually. in realty sugar pulled away further then what the judges score cards showed. reberto KNEW that the gig was up & he was being totally outclassed. thats why he quit & claimed that he couldn't fight him doing these kinds of things. the styles killed duran in that rematch......