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Old 04-14-2017, 10:25 AM #1
Aztekkas Aztekkas is offline
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Default Do wins over novice fighters whom eventually become succesful...

Do wins over novice fighters whom eventually become succesful deserve credit?


Say for instance, fighter A is a world champion in two divisions, is making his 4th defense of his belt and is pitted against a novice fighter with 14 wins and 1 loss. Fighter A demolishes him and moves on with his career. However, fighter B eventually moves up the rankings to earn himself another proper shot and wins a belt. Should fighter A get credit for beating a novice or prospect whom eventually goes on to show world class talent?

I'm not certain on how to feel on this. I almost see it as a cop out(for the renown fighter) for taking on a "meh" challenge that luckily pays off in the long run because the less experienced fighter eventually develops and grows enough to actually earn himself a shot. A shot he may not have deserved in his initial opportunity.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:31 AM #2
JrRod JrRod is offline
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Originally Posted by Aztekkas View Post
Do wins over novice fighters whom eventually become succesful deserve credit?


Say for instance, fighter A is a world champion in two divisions, is making his 4th defense of his belt and is pitted against a novice fighter with 14 wins and 1 loss. Fighter A demolishes him and moves on with his career. However, fighter B eventually moves up the rankings to earn himself another proper shot and wins a belt. Should fighter A get credit for beating a novice or prospect whom eventually goes on to show world class talent?

I'm not certain on how to feel on this. I almost see it as a cop out(for the renown fighter) for taking on a "meh" challenge that luckily pays off in the long run because the less experienced fighter eventually develops and grows enough to actually earn himself a shot. A shot he may not have deserved in his initial opportunity.
Of course he deserves credit.
Think Roy jones vs Hopkins. Roy beating Hopkins before he became the legend he is today. Yet Roy will always get the credit for beating the legend
Margarito also gets credit for beating Sergio. .
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:41 AM #3
Aztekkas Aztekkas is offline
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Originally Posted by JrRod View Post
Of course he deserves credit.
Think Roy jones vs Hopkins. Roy beating Hopkins before he became the legend he is today. Yet Roy will always get the credit for beating the legend
Margarito also gets credit for beating Sergio. .
I dont know. It's like some folks who don't give Floyd credit for beating Alvarez since Saul was too "green" when they fought. I suppose Floyd would get more credit if they were to have fought when Saul had actually stringed together several good wins at the top level first.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:41 AM #4
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nah not if they are a prospect/novice. because the fighter may just have improved, say they were a 6/10 when they fought the champ first time, with experience etc they may be more of an 8/10 a few years later.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:42 AM #5
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Well, each case is different. I'm assuming you're reffering to Chocolatito's win over Estrada - I do give him credit for that, as Juan fought a great fight and gave great account of himself, but I recognise that Estrada's inexperience definitely was a factor...
Same with Bernard Hopkins for Roy Jones, that JrRod mentioned - excellent win, although I definitely wouldn't say Roy beat the best version of B-Hop.

You also have Ricardo Lopez blasting Saman Sorjaturong - I give him a bit less credit for that as Saman lost 6 rounder two fights prior and just wasn't ready at that stage.

You have to look at it individually, but generally I think it's better for fighter's legacies to give shots to young talented fighters that might turn out something, rather than keep fighting guys that we know will never go beyond certain level.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:47 AM #6
SplitSecond SplitSecond is offline
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Roy vs Hopkins was both guys basically in the same place.

Floyd vs ALvarez is the example your looking for and I don't see why you would get full credit for beating an obviously green fighter. Who the fuk goes from fighting his first threat in Austin fuking Trout to fighting the number 1 fighter on the planet. You gotta give him credit for beating Alvarez but the guy was obviously green. Alvarez isn't that good anyway and we'll see that when his career is over.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:52 AM #7
Aztekkas Aztekkas is offline
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Originally Posted by Mastrangelo View Post
Well, each case is different. I'm assuming you're reffering to Chocolatito's win over Estrada - I do give him credit for that, as Juan fought a great fight and gave great account of himself, but I recognise that Estrada's inexperience definitely was a factor...
Same with Bernard Hopkins for Roy Jones, that JrRod mentioned - excellent win, although I definitely wouldn't say Roy beat the best version of B-Hop.

You also have Ricardo Lopez blasting Saman Sorjaturong - I give him a bit less credit for that as Saman lost 6 rounder two fights prior and just wasn't ready at that stage.

You have to look at it individually, but generally I think it's better for fighter's legacies to give shots to young talented fighters that might turn out something, rather than keep fighting guys that we know will never go beyond certain level.

I was actually brought to this idea while re watching Sal Sanchez vs Gomez and remembering Sal also had a win over Nelson.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:58 AM #8
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Margarito vs Maravilla is a good example of this. There are too many variables though, sometimes the guy deserves full credit, other times not so much.

I don't think Canelo was green when he fought Floyd, he was young but had like 45 fights. That's not to say he hasn't improved since Floyd.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:03 AM #9
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Originally Posted by SplitSecond View Post
Roy vs Hopkins was both guys basically in the same place.

Floyd vs ALvarez is the example your looking for and I don't see why you would get full credit for beating an obviously green fighter. Who the fuk goes from fighting his first threat in Austin fuking Trout to fighting the number 1 fighter on the planet. You gotta give him credit for beating Alvarez but the guy was obviously green. Alvarez isn't that good anyway and we'll see that when his career is over.
He was being accused of ducking Canelo at the time.
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Old 04-14-2017, 11:06 AM #10
SplitSecond SplitSecond is offline
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He was being accused of ducking Canelo at the time.
Floyd got accused of ducking everyone by haters, fanboys still use this excuse, it's doesn't mean anything, the only people he was really accused of ducking was Pacquiao, Mosley, Cotto, Margarito.
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