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Old 11-20-2016, 09:49 AM #41
Ta Khent Ta Khent is offline
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Originally Posted by King_ View Post
Honest to goodness, I'm not even being biased. I legitimately thought Kovalev was winning comfortable, although competitive, but comfortably. I was giving Ward props for coming back and showing heart, etc, and then I heard "114-113," and I knew it was coming.

How can they say Ward was winning? You've seen Andre Ward before bro, and that was not the same type of rhythm he carries with him in his other fights, he was fighting Kovalevs fight bro and he broke through "survival mode" to land some nice body shots in the later round, but Kovalev landed maybe the same amount of body shots, and then some.

It's like Ward got gifted "sympathy rounds" just for hanging in there and showing guts, but that's not how boxing should be judged
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If you were only using 2 of the 4 scoring criteria, I could see your argument.
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:52 AM #42
King_ King_ is offline
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
I believe you could argue either man won 7 rounds.

I had the same score as the judges 114-113 Ward. Definitely wouldn't argue a Kovalev win.

I think quite a few feel the same way. Most consider it an either way fight because that's exactly what it was.

And I was rooting for Kovalev myself.
[QUOTE=Boxer149;17214540]
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Originally Posted by King_ View Post
Do you legitimately believe that Kovalev won only 5 rounds or less?[/Q

It honestly could have been 7-5 for either fighter-- or a draw. It really depends on how you judge each round. The fight was incredibly close, I just think Ward did enough to turn the tide and get the W. Everybody is talking about the judges and how they came to their scores but they each scored the individual rounds differently and still came up 114-113 Ward- it does not get any closer than that. This is the first rematch I am genuinely excited about in years...

But see, I just don't see how you can give Ward the last 6 rounds. If this fight was as close as everyone says it is, do you really think Ward won ALL 6 of the last rounds?

I dunno, man, I think that's the point. You just HAVE to assume some kind of bias towards Ward from the judges due to scoring 6 straight rounds for Ward, no?

As you say, any other person could of scored half those rounds for Kovalev. So, I just don't think it's fair for Kovalev due to those particular judges and some "continental cooking."

One things for certain: these are the two best fighters in the sport, IMO. That was a high-stakes chess match, but it's just unfortunate for me that those judges couldn't see the moves that Kovalev was putting out in those last 6 rounds. Complete one-sided judging, IMHO.
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Old 11-20-2016, 09:59 AM #43
King_ King_ is offline
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The judges gave Ward the last 6 rounds. Come on lol. There's just no way, man. Anybody gonna sit here and say that Kovalev did not win a SINGLE round out of the last 6?

I'm really curious to see the compubox stats per round in those last 6.... I think that will shed a lot more light on this.
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:00 AM #44
IronDanHamza IronDanHamza is offline
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[QUOTE=King_;17214574]
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Originally Posted by Boxer149 View Post


But see, I just don't see how you can give Ward the last 6 rounds. If this fight was as close as everyone says it is, do you really think Ward won ALL 6 of the last rounds?

I dunno, man, I think that's the point. You just HAVE to assume some kind of bias towards Ward from the judges due to scoring 6 straight rounds for Ward, no?

As you say, any other person could of scored half those rounds for Kovalev. So, I just don't think it's fair for Kovalev due to those particular judges and some "continental cooking."

One things for certain: these are the two best fighters in the sport, IMO. That was a high-stakes chess match, but it's just unfortunate for me that those judges couldn't see the moves that Kovalev was putting out in those last 6 rounds. Complete one-sided judging, IMHO.
I can see an argument for giving Ward the last 6 rounds yeah.

Did I? No.

But I can see an argument. Most were close. Most of the rounds in general were close outside the first 2.
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:01 AM #45
King_ King_ is offline
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[QUOTE=IronDanHamza;17214623]
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Originally Posted by King_ View Post

I can see an argument for giving Ward the last 6 rounds yeah.

Did I? No.

But I can see an argument. Most were close. Most of the rounds in general were close outside the first 2.
I think the compubox stats for those last 6 rounds will determine whether or not this was a robbery.

If Kovalev outlanded Ward in the majority of those 6 rounds, and failed to get a single one of those rounds from the judges, would that sway you a bit more towards the "robbery" side?
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:20 AM #46
PivotandRoll PivotandRoll is offline
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The people who thought Ward would win thought he'd outbox Kovalev clearly, but that didn't happen. Kovalev steadily outboxed Ward while Ward retreated last night.

Those scorecards were in before the fight started.


People say "Ward figured him out," did he?! Because it's the exact opposite, IMO. From the opening bell Kovalev is the one that controlled everything, but the key is those later rounds where people say "you must of missed Wards body shots"

No, I didn't miss the 3 body shots per round that Ward landed. Now tell me how many combinations Ward landed in those rounds? I legit don't think Ward landed more then one two punch combination. He landed some body shots and a couple jabs and thats it. Meanwhile, while Ward landed body shots, Kovalev continued to snap his head back, land his own body shots, and throw and land combinations.

Rewatch the fight with no HBO commentary and you'll see Kovalev clearly winning even the rounds Max was saying Ward did. Max was terrible and he may have blinded judgement to viewers. Every time he was going crazy for Wards body shots, Kovalev would come back with a laser beam jab and stun Ward multiple times.

Absolute farce of a fight. Kovalev got robbed by these corrupt judges plain and simple.

Kovalev had Ward figured out early, AND it carried over in the later rounds, wtf, you guys talking about body shots. BODY SHOTS!?!?!? It was like 3 per round and thats all he did. Body shots stopped Ward from getting washed- but they did not win him rounds or the fight.

Kovalev punished Ward throughout the fight and more often, Ward was in survival mode and did not outbox anything, he was surviving!!! Wow, I literally can't believe this. I've been crying all night and watching Kovalev highlight videos, I'm stunned. Literally stunned that these punk ass judges just robbed Kovalev of everything.


Kovalev #1 P4P and it ain't even close.
A point either way or a draw felt right but P4P king? C'mon clearly that's absolute nonsense. It'd actually be pretty embarrassing if that was the best boxing had to offer.

I don't think Ward who couldn't stop Brand and Kovalev who couldn't stop Chilemba are any where near the best two in the sport.
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:21 AM #47
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Kovalev won. He controlled the pace and fought his fight. I do not see Ward winning 7 rds. I gave him 4rds and the most 5 if going out of my way to be generous. 115-112 kovalev.
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:34 AM #48
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Kovalev won. He controlled the pace and fought his fight. I do not see Ward winning 7 rds. I gave him 4rds and the most 5 if going out of my way to be generous. 115-112 kovalev.
I don't see that- it was tale of two halves of a fight. Kovalev clearly established himself in the first half but Ward controlled the second half of the fight. it still doesn't take away from either fighter's performance last night.
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Old 11-20-2016, 10:34 AM #49
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I picked Kovalev to win this fight but this was a close, hard to score, fight imo. I've only watched the fight once but I think a draw would have been a fair reflection of the fight rather than UD to Ward, but that's not how boxing is scored. But if the fights close enough that it could be a draw, then the home fighter is much more likely to get the decision, especially when the 3 Judges are the same nationality as the home fighter.

I would like to see the rematch in Russia with 3 Russian Judges and a Russian Referee. Then if Kovalev wins that fight, a third fight, with a much more neutral set up, can decide the trilogy winner. But I think that's just fantasy, it's not gonna happen.

But I congratulate and give respect to Ward, I was skeptical that he would even take this fight (I gladly eat humble pie for being wrong here), and he did so well after the terrible start he had. I thought Kovalev was likely going to knock him out after showing the impact of the jab in the first round, and knocking him down with the right in the second, but ward is great defensively.

And condolences and big respect to Kovalev once again, he's not afraid to travel to the opponents backyard, and still clearly wins the fights, and was unlucky to lose here; he would have gone to Oakland for this fight if necessary. These are definitely the 2 best PFP fighters in the world imo.
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Old 11-20-2016, 11:17 AM #50
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[QUOTE=King_;17214628]
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post

I think the compubox stats for those last 6 rounds will determine whether or not this was a robbery.

If Kovalev outlanded Ward in the majority of those 6 rounds, and failed to get a single one of those rounds from the judges, would that sway you a bit more towards the "robbery" side?
http://www.boxingscene.com/andre-war...-stats--110941

Ward outlanded Kovalev in 6 rounds, so 6 a piece. Kovalev outlanded Ward in power punches 7 rounds to 5. But the numbers are razor thin in most rounds, and pretty much reflect a close either way fight. First time watching - I scored the fight 114-113 Kovalev, on second watch 114-113 for Ward. I think it is just one of those where you have to accept it was close, scoring is subjective and move on.

Let both guys have a rest and we'll see it again next year, for the record I think both guys can fight better. I think one of the main things people are overlooking is Ward has definitely slipped a little. I think he is 80-85% of what he used to be.
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