The AlexKid 'questions about punchers, chins, hiprotation etc.' superduper thread.

[AlexKid]

I have drawn the conclusion that no one has any ****ing idea lol me neither.

I WONDER IF YOU CAN OBJECTIVELY TELL WHO WAS HARDEST FROM FILM FOOTAGE ETC

[DMD3]

As far as power from a single punch, I'd have to say George Foreman. He defeated Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in just 2 rounds. There's also video footage of him putting a permanent dent in a heavybag, something I can't find any other boxer doing.

[rightsideup]

shavers holmes said he was out from one of his rights but awaken because butt hut the canvas so hard

[Elroy1]

As far as power from a single punch, I'd have to say George Foreman. He defeated Joe Frazier and Ken Norton in just 2 rounds. There's also video footage of him putting a permanent dent in a heavybag, something I can't find any other boxer doing.

Unbelievable!

Really incredible stuff that Foreman on the Heavybag. Curious thing happens when unbiased and unindoctrinated folk lay eyes on that video...

It's pathetic! Anybody can put a dent like that in a heavy bag with full force wing shots without any recourse to anything else but slamming your fists left and right.

Believe me, I know because "I" personally do that sort of power drill myself these days and produce similarly "loud noise", denting bag movement/oscillation and the like, and I'm not even a professional boxer!

There is also another reason you probably haven't seen other boxers repeat such feats.. Because it would be utterly ridiculous for their reputation to make such a bummy video!

I'm not doubting that Geroge Foreman could hit really hard but seriously citing that video as evidence is simply laughable! You thought it looked really hard, because you were TOLD to think it looked really hard.

[Elroy1]

Punching power ultimately entails a momentary transferrance of power at impact which can not really be ascertained by video footage. It simply doesn't follow a simplistic formula like f=ma or anything like that which we might try to breakdown a video and use stats to get a hold on. It in fact involves a lot of torque and subtle weight shift and slight movements etc etc.

We CAN simply use KO statistics to check KO power which leads straight up to a situation where of course we have..

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Vitali Klitschko
4. Mike Tyson

Of course KO statistics are far more than power, including deliver skills and overall boxing acumen to score the KO. And even from this list above we can glean that Vitali for instance was not that much of a power puncher, relying more on wearing down for the KO rather than single big shots.

So there is no clear way to really discerne the hardest hitters.

Except we CAN use all such tactics to get a rough gauge on them.

It is clear that cruiser crunchers+bum busters like Shavers and 70s Foreman and Liston for example were not really top power punchers when viewed against the modern eras.

We would be focussing mainly on the current and recent eras for the most powerful punchers where the HW's are HEAVIEST (over a representative sample of boxers, measuring KO stats by WEIGHT leads to the inescapable truth that compiling good KO records in the modern era is worth FAR more than doing so in a cruiser bum era. and that simply the heftier boxers hit harder on average (which is why we should be extremely suspect of a 218lb Geroge Foreman's power, PARTICULARLY when his KOed opponents were all massively lighter than Foreman!)

In this light it is obvious modern punchers apart from the 4 mentioned above such as Samuel Peter or David Tua for example are the ones to really look at.

I mean you can draw comparisons between Peter and Shavers- PEter simply being a massively stronger and better version of Shavers (one with far greater power and chin also).

[billeau2]

One thing to keep in mind as well, is that there is always a trade off when one hits with as much power as possible. Transferring that much power means setting up for the punch and, the natural way of punching hard is also what we are protected from physiologically.

We evolved to hit down on things. This is why the body is protected from things coming from the top and hitting down upon it. Consider, that if I take a shot at you hitting down this is the easiest way to bring all my weight to bare upon you...Watch when chimps and other big primates hit, they do so hitting down because this is the natural way to generate power. However when these hits come, the first thing my fist may encounter is your forehead which is one of, if not the hardest part of your body and protects your eyes, nose and throat from the force of the blow...once my fist passes your head and throat your plexis is also not available at that angle, and neither is your groin.

In nature primates have a lot of discretion under these circumstances. I an keep hitting you very hard, and your body has quite a bit of resistance to the blows...meaning I can variate the amount of damage I do.

Trained fighters are trained to punch straight, or even up at certain angles where a blow may not be as hard, but can access the vital areas of the body. Punching straight or upwards my punch will naturally catch the groin, plexus, throat, and eyes among other areas. But now I am working against gravity and to bring my weight to bare I have to either use centrifigal force, excessive speed, or find a way to bring my weight to bare. In many older arts this was done with timing the foot so it hit with the weight upon it, just as the punch landed on target... This was something advocated by Dempsey as well...Or, a man would try to catch the opponent as the punching arm was maximally extended...Sonny's favorite expression can be used here because this is pretty much Poleaxing a man. With maximum extension comes maximum structural support as the body very briefly locks into place, maximum strength as the arm has been launched the farthest distance from the body and maximum centrifugal force as the hips, spine twist and the legs sink into position.

But alas, hitting hard with different glove sizes also changes things and most hard blows thrown before large mufflers (gloves) were used would not transfer with the larger gloves. So today to hit hard fighters have to rotate the jab, lose the lead punch, and loop the cross, etc.

So in truth the notion that there are progressively harder hitters is nonsense. The guys who are succesful have adapted their hitting technique to circumstances. Joe Louis is a perfect example...his technique, his strategy and his footwork was designed to make it so that over a 15 round fight he would get so many opportunities to attack his man and do it with a form suited to circumstances of the day. he was so good that this held for him against Billy Conn..where he got fewer chances but given the chance he was succesful.

Tyson, is another example. his hitting technique was explosive and that allowed him to generate a lot of torque and blunt force with big gloves. But lets remember when Tyson hit Mitch Green without the gloves! his technique did not kill Green (many people think a boxer without gloves is a deadly puncher) and in fact, he broke his hand! Tyson would NOT be able to punch that way fighting with smaller golves against Jack JOhnson for example!

See my point Alex?

[AlexKid]

Who hit hardest out of Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, and Bruno?

Is it Bowe?

Lewis?

They were both able to KO Holyfield Tyson wasnt.

Lewis didnt finish teh job because hes so safety first but he could have he had him wobbled and chose to jab to victory.

[sonnyboyx2]

Hardest right-hand Lennox Lewis. Hardest overall puncher Mike Tyson, who was a tremendous left-hooker. Tyson also threw a vicious right-hand to the body.

[soul_survivor]

Hardest Tyson, just because he couldn't KO Holyfield doesn't mean Bowe hit harder, smh

[AHussain123]

George Foreman,Mike Tyson,Joe Louis