Archie Moore vs Walcott: Who had the higher skill set?

[Sugarj]

I think Moore did have another loss at heavyweight late in his career when he fought in Italy, not that its relevant to the thread.

The Layne vs Walcott fight is an interesting one, both did look good at times but I do gather that Walcott was nursing an injury at the time, was it a right bicep? I'd favour a fully fit Walcott to beat Layne 2 times out of every 3.

I do rate Layne, tough guy.

As for Moore's record at heavyweight, did he really fight over 60 times? I'm not going to boxrec it......but it comes as a shock. Granted though, he didn't excel at world level.

[TheGreatA]

I think Moore did have another loss at heavyweight late in his career when he fought in Italy, not that its relevant to the thread.

The Layne vs Walcott fight is an interesting one, both did look good at times but I do gather that Walcott was nursing an injury at the time, was it a right bicep? I'd favour a fully fit Walcott to beat Layne 2 times out of every 3.

I do rate Layne, tough guy.

As for Moore's record at heavyweight, did he really fight over 60 times? I'm not going to boxrec it......but it comes as a shock. Granted though, he didn't excel at world level.

He all but cleaned out the top 10. He didn't win the title but he was top ranked for years as a heavyweight. I'd call that excelling at world level.

The loss against Rinaldi was an over the weight bout but both were pretty much light heavyweights. From the film I've seen, it wasn't the best of decisions and the "knockdown" that was called by a referee was Moore obviously playing possum on the ropes to draw Rinaldi in.

I believe Walcott claimed to have hurt his right hand against Layne. The injury wasn't serious but may have affected his performance. Nonetheless he was having difficulties with Layne's awkwardness and crowding. Moore brought it to the likes of Harold Johnson, Joey Maxim, Willie Pastrano and other skilled boxers, he was adept at dealing with the type.

[Toney616]

Waffle over! As to sheer pound for pound skill sets I'll be controversial and edge Walcott by a smidgen. I think he had better footwork than Moore, a sharper jab, possibly better (pound for pound) hand speed and an even more unGodly use of angles......but it really is so close!

Can you elaborate a bit more on this?

[Toney616]

Walcott was slicker and probably more clever but overall his stills were inferior. He also ducked Moore.

What things did Moore do better than Walcott?

[Toney616]

Tough one to call, I'd settle for Moore having the edge in "offensive" skill.

Archie knew how to walk his man down and could spoil any boxer's night. Walcott, for the most part, relied on his counter-punching and as stated before did not have as easy a time against opponents who forced him to lead. However there's no denying that old Jersey Joe was a bag of tricks., though more so when he was allowed to be fleet of foot and not made to fight at short distance.

While Walcott arguably had better success against some common opponents, I tend to think that Moore could have beaten him the same way Archie beat many skilled boxers/movers. He would play the "spoiler" to their boxing and grind out a points win with rough, consistent work in close.

Thanks for this

[Sugarj]

Hi Iron Mike,

To be honest Moore and Walcott both were terrific for throwing punches from interesting angles at close range and at a distance. Walcott's hook/uppercut or Moore's sneak right being good punches to watch out for.

Walcott would jab from odd angles, especially when doing his waltz and the punches could come from as low as waste level. Or he would stand square, shift to the right and then fire a right hand counter. His slipping and hooking and firing in body punches was good to watch.

My favorite displays of Walcott's skill are Charles 3, Louis 1/Louis 2 and Marciano 1.

[Toney616]

Hi Iron Mike,

To be honest Moore and Walcott both were terrific for throwing punches from interesting angles at close range and at a distance. Walcott's hook/uppercut or Moore's sneak right being good punches to watch out for.

Walcott would jab from odd angles, especially when doing his waltz and the punches could come from as low as waste level. Or he would stand square, shift to the right and then fire a right hand counter. His slipping and hooking and firing in body punches was good to watch.

My favorite displays of Walcott's skill are Charles 3, Louis 1/Louis 2 and Marciano 1.

Thanks for this
How would you define odd angles?

[TheGreatA]

Thanks for this
How would you define odd angles?

[Sugarj]

Excellent work there GreatA, I do like that video. Great that it starts with Walcott too.

And Hi Iron Mike,

I suppose defining 'odd angles' isn't too easy in the literal sense. I guess its partially the ability of a boxer to find punches with either hand to connect with his opponent at any given range when in close proximity to his opponent.

Some of these angles can be quite unorthodox, like the 45 degree angle that Walcott often used to fire off his hook/uppercut to devastating effect. He seemed to find right hands that came from nowhere, ask Joe Louis.....he was dropped by I think three of them in two fights. Ha ha

You can use footwork, such as Walcott's bouncing (the Walcott waltz) to create these 'angles', or distance (in and out), or the slipping of punches with upperbody/head movement before countering. Or even by throwing punches that start from different areas between the waste and chin level.

Its just that Walcott was stranger than most, check out the video. Watch how he slips Louis's jabs and manages to find counter punches, see how when he is pressed to the ropes by Charles, Louis or Marciano he can land quick right hands that only seem to travel a few inches. Or how he can move inside Charles's lead hand and fire in that awesome hook/uppercut that knocks Charles out. Or how he quickly turns southpaw against Louis fires in a straight right, then moves back into the orthodox stance. Really bizarre for the day. Also watch the strange angles he fires the jab from, he'll use it as a counter punch in itself, or probe from the left or the right of his opponent..........all different angles.

A professional trainer would give you a much better prose than me, but you'll get the idea the more you watch.