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Why don't older boxers chasing younger legacy opponents bluff retirement?

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  • Why don't older boxers chasing younger legacy opponents bluff retirement?

    You know how people are, the grass is always greener. Take the Lomachenko situation. He has become the money man of sorts below 140 pounds, but he's also a high risk fight. He wants to fight the best guys around his division, most of whom are younger than him, like Tank. But Tank's team is looking at that fight like, "yeah we could make say 3 mil from that fight right now, but we'd probably lose. If he wait another year or two, we could make 10 mil and have a better chance of winning."

    Being so willing to fight the best is great for boxing, and great for Loma's legacy IF the feeling is actually mutual, but it seems that like relationships, being too easy to get can actually make potential partners have second thoughts. Loma has dared to be great so often, everyone, including Team Tank, is taking it for granted, and taking for granted that the offer will still be there, and be even better, a year or two from now.

    Cuz like I said, the grass is always greener. 'We could get 3 mil now, but if we wait a year, we could get 10 mil.'

    But what if Loma bluffed retirement? What if he said, "I'm not getting the fights I want, and my body is breaking down, so if I don't get the fights I want in 2019, I will retire from boxing. I've already gone to three divisions seeking the best opponents, but for the most part, they just don't want to fight me. If this sport is not up to my level, then it doesn't deserve me, and that probably explains why I am growing so bored and tired with it."

    All Loma has to say is that, and suddenly the attitudes of boxers like Tank and their teams might change to, "F*** we better go get that 3 million before it walks out the door forever! F*** the 10 mil we might not even get 3 if we don't act now! Floyd call Arum right now I dont want to hear anymore excuses!"

    See what I mean? GGG made the same mistake in failing to do this when he was younger. He made it clear he would be available pretty much forever as long as Canelo wanted to wait. He finally put his foot down at age 35 because everyone realized he was past his prime and in danger of losing by then. He basically acted in hindsight. The point is to put your foot down years BEFORE you decline, so as to avoid being put at a disadvantage in the fight, not to put your foot down when you're already years in decline.

    Why don't more boxers do this? Even Loma should have done it years ago, probably right after making Rigo quit is when he should have done it, or after Linares, after either of those wins it would have been very believable, like "I just had this big win, but this was the last big name willing to fight me basically, and I've already accomplished a lot as you can see, so I may retire now." That would have been a wake up call to everyone around his division and their managers that if you want one of the last Loma paydays before he retires, you better reserve your spot in line right away. It creates a RUSH instead of what has been the case with Loma's career and before that GGG's career the entire time, the OPPOSITE of a rush, everyone WAITING and waiting for them to decline because they never put their foot down and make clear, "You're not getting a cent once I decline. Either fight me now, when we're both at our best, or I will take my ball and go home, even if I lose out on a payday too."

    That's what you have to do when you're in a vulnerable situation like that, which is what being the older fighter is in boxing, a vulnerable situation. All your potential opponent has to do is wait for TIME to defeat you, TIME to drown you, so long as you let him make you wait for it to. So basically the only recourse for a fighter in that situation is to say, "I know you got me in a vulnerable, losing situation here, long term, because if you wait to a certain point, I will be too old to compete, but you will still be young enough, so at that point, you would beat me if we fought. And by waiting until that moment, the fight will also most likely be a big financial payday not just for you, but for me as well, which would incentivize many boxers in that situation to take the fight even despite being waited out until they were old. So I want you to know, if you try to use time to take me down, then I'm not going down unless I take you down with me. Meaning, I will prevent you from getting that payday even if it means I lose out on it to."

    Because once you make that choice, then most likely, you won't have to. Once they realize you're really willing to do that, they will do the smart thing and get the money while they can, even if you're still in your prime, which means you will most likely win, which means even more money for you in your next fights, way more. Plus it's better for your legacy. But if you never make it clear, then as we've seen, these establishment boxers have no respect for the sport or fairness, and they will in fact wait you out to the very last minute that you allow them to, and make it an unfair fight. No one is going to look out for you, especially not them. Only you can do that, and this is how. So why don't they?
    Last edited by Boxing Logic; 02-18-2019, 03:33 AM.

  • #2
    At least they are upfront with the Tank not fighting Loma situation. They wanted it in the future for bigger money i think/hope. What i hate is pretending you want a fight, get offered it for your highest payday then you don't turn up (Then try to play dumb fans like you're being ducked.)

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    • #3
      lolol...youre insane

      "ggg put his foot down finally"??? is that what happened? or canelo finally decided he was ready? listen man...canelo would be gettin money without golovkin one way or another...

      the loma situation might have a leg to stand on if loma had been around for 8-10 years as a pro and was gettin that money for that long...but hes been around for a few years and while hes made good money and done well for himself legacy wise its still not that great....theres always more to make and be done

      and uhhhhh...nobody said golovkin was declining until the fight was signed...then the pre made excuses started to fly...and then once golovkin didnt look like himself they really flew...till then everyone said he was " a young(whatever his age was) that didnt take much damage and didnt have wear and tear"

      ill tell ya man...you weirdos are really protective of your EE idols

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Ray* View Post
        At least they are upfront with the Tank not fighting Loma situation. They wanted it in the future for bigger money i think/hope. What i hate is pretending you want a fight, get offered it for your highest payday then you don't turn up (Then try to play dumb fans like you're being ducked.)
        i hear that....when someone gives you a 50 mil guarantee for unify the HW titles in america....and you pretend you want it...but then say "hey man i cant its gotta be in the UK for the fans" and your promoter is out there telling everyone nobody even knows this opponent anyways.....then you tell your fans they dont decide your career and they should train to fight that guy that offered your money...it looks kinda weird....then that guy says "ok ill take your lowball offer to fight in your backyard anyway...but its gotta be this year" and you send a contract with no date on it which is really for the next year(not the year your opponent asked for) it looks even more weird.....THENNNNNNNNNNN you go and fight in the US anyway next it looks even more weird

        i totally hear you mate

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        • #5
          It wouldn't make any difference or change anything. Either they are willing to fight him or they are not willing to fight him. He is only 30 and still in his late prime. He is a dedicated scientific trainer. Nobody is going to believe his body is breaking down and he will be retiring for that reason.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Curt Henning View Post
            lolol...youre insane

            "ggg put his foot down finally"??? is that what happened?
            I was referring to them saying either Canelo fights us now or GGG will move on, fight Saunders, move up, etc. Then for te rematch GGG definitely put his foot down with 50/50 demand and so on. Dont get so hung up on technicalities. Fans get so worked up over who "put their foot down" in negotiations because they dont support boxers who are actually brave enough to fight prime top opponents, and good enough to win. So because you have no legitimate wins to celebrate, and Canelo is still so far behind prime GGG that even vs old GGG the best you can say is he fought him even, and most think GGG won 60% of the rounds even past prime his prime... so because that's who you support, and you have no real win to celebrate, you instead have to resort to getting all worked up over who stood up, or didnt stand up, to whom in negotiations, when that wasn't even the point of my post, just a minor detail in an example I used to explain what my post was actually about, which is not this.

            Start supporting boxers based on who is willing to give you, the boxing fan, the fights you want to see vs elite PRIME opponents, instead of supporting boxers based on non-boxing reasons, and you won't have this problem anymore.

            FYI, I used to be a Canelo fan. You know when? When HE was chasing down the best, when HE was calling out Floyd, then stepping up to fight Lara. Back when he did that, before he became the protected cash cow diva, I was a big fan. Then he stopped doing that, GGG came on the scene and started doing it, so I became a GGG fan, and stopped being a Canelo fan. See how that works? It's a completely consistent system, and it's a system that is based completely on boxing, instead of race or any of that stuff. If all boxing fans supported the sport using this system, instead of letting boxers with the skin color or nationality they prefer get away with murder and still defending them while constantly discrediting and hating on boxers with the skin color or nationality they dislike even if they do everything right, then I bet the sport of boxing would be in a much better place.

            I mean, almost every world class P4P clash of the last decade, and almost every exciting fight at the elite level of the sport the last decade, has featured a foreign fighter like Pacquiao, GGG, Kovalev, Loma, etc. While Floyd and PBC have made it their goal to get fans to pay for and support lesser, "easier" fights for the same money, if you follow Floyd's admission to its logical conclusion, this group of fighters I mentioned have been some of the only ones providing real elite clean entertaining boxing matches to the fans in their stead. Without them, everyone would be bored to death by boxing because all that would be left would be fixed fights at catchweights where the B-side isn't allowed to wear their normal gloves, or something like that. You know how Floyd operates. But thanks to the foreign boxers of the last generation, we've at least had a few great matchups during that time.

            In other words, have completely carried the sport during that time, yet for some reason, I see many fans hating on them more than anyone. How can supposed "boxing fans" hate on the group of boxers providing them the real boxing matches, while support the group of boxers providing them either real mismatches or WWE bull**** "top level" matches that in reality feature a past prime B-side, or a drained B-side? It's because people get twisted around completely when they find themselves supporting boxers for non-boxing reasons. Then that boxer takes advantage of that and stops respecting boxing at all, because he realizes you don't really support him for the boxing, and that you will still support him even if he disrespects the boxing because that's not what it's really about for you. And that has a bad effect on the sport.
            Last edited by Boxing Logic; 02-21-2019, 04:09 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by boliodogs View Post
              It wouldn't make any difference or change anything. Either they are willing to fight him or they are not willing to fight him. He is only 30 and still in his late prime. He is a dedicated scientific trainer. Nobody is going to believe his body is breaking down and he will be retiring for that reason.
              Actually they would because he just had shoulder surgery, major shoulder surgery. So his body IS breaking down. Why wouldn't they believe the truth?

              In any case, who says his bluff has to be based on health? He can say it's for any reason he wants. Sick of training. Want to spend more time with the family. I'm already financially secure for life. I want to go into acting. Whatever. He can say anything. The point is to bluff ahead of time so you get the opponents you want to rush to fight you instead of waiting you out thinking you'll still be around in your late thirties. It's actually a no-brainer genius (for its obviousness) plan, I don't know why boxers haven't thought of it before. I also dont know why fans are so standoffish to a good, no-brainer idea. I've thought this through, and it really would help.

              Heck, even the interview Loma just gave where he said he will probably retire at 33, even that will help him. Now everyone 135 and below coming up, like Teofimo, Haney, etc, knows that if they want a Loma payday, they may not be able to wait him out for 5 more years, they may need to get in line now if they want to be one of his only handful of remaining opponents in his career. He might have only 9 fights left, the first 3 already planned this year, leaving only 6 more for Haney, etc, to fight over. It's just simple supply and demand. Suddenly they have to fight over him, instead of him fighting/begging to get them in the ring. For him, finding big name opponents has been scarce, whereas they see a big payday with him as inevitable and something that will just get even bigger because as I said, he's always having a hard time finding opponents, so they know whenever they are ready, he will be too, in which case, why not wait to be ready until he's old?

              But now that he's made it known actually fight dates with him might be at the point where they are getting scarce now too, and the payday for fighting him is not going to have 5+ more years to grow into something much bigger after all so you're better off just getting what's available now or you might not get anything at all, suddenly the supply and demand equation changes, and so does the leverage as a result.

              And all that just from an interview saying he'll probably retire at 33. Now imagine at age 27, he'd said 30 was his target retirement date, just how much THAT could have helped. This is my point. He actually just executed the bluff I was speaking of, almost as if he saw this thread... I wonder lol... probably just a coincidence... he just could have done it years ago. But he did just do it. Either that or it's the truth. Either way putting it out there has the desired effect.
              Last edited by Boxing Logic; 02-21-2019, 04:21 AM.

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              • #8
                I don’t think it’d work for a fighter like Loma as far as the $ he brings to opponets. Fighters teams would be more then happy to let him probably stay retired for at least a couple years before any fighter called his name and that point it’d be basically the same time frame as when most would consider fighting him anyways , The only
                Differece is now Loma is out the sport for years probably has ring rust and hasn’t built on his legacy and probably can demand less $ then if he stayed active

                Andre Ward has been retired for a year and
                A half and the only fighter to even mention his name is Bellew and that was probably half serious.None or the new strap holders even care about Ward at this point they all have their eyes on the other active guys. Even Kov doesnt care and hasn’t mentioned him he wants the other strap holders. The sport moves on from fighters quickly it
                Seems almost at break neck speed and even the top guys are forgotten in no time

                The only time a retirement works for a
                Fighter is if their a cash cow. They can retire for however long and their name holds enough weight and brings in enough $ that they can return when ever they want But the difference it’s them who chooses the opponent. Leonard was retired until he decided to fight Hagler . Mayweather was retired until he decided to fight Marquez or when he decided to fight Mcgregor. They still hold all the cards because of the $ they bring. While Loma is a draw he doesn’t necessarily bring in that type of $ where he decides
                Who he fights and the guy will bend over backwards
                To make it happen. If Loma had
                Mayweather type earning potential he could call out Tank now and he’d take it but he’s not so he can try and wait him out

                But I doubt Tank will even given the chance to be the one to possibly take Loma scalp. I doubt Arum let’s
                A non TR and Mayweather fighter to boot be the one. It’ll be one of his young guns that are given that chance like a Teofimo to be the one
                Last edited by R_Walken; 02-21-2019, 05:33 AM.

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                • #9
                  News flash Loma is no “money” guy lol

                  Only hardcores know him

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