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Old 03-03-2019, 05:59 AM #21
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Originally Posted by Toffee View Post
They addressed that when they sanctioned the fight. They literally said he could fight Fury and they would work out the mandatory status separately.

Then they ordered Wilder to fight Fury.

So tell me, Mr WBC, why did they order the fight?
I already told you. They ordered the fight so Wilder could skip Breazeale again. If the "board of governors" didn't order a rematch, Wilder would have had to fight Breazeale. Wilder wanted to fight Fury again, so Moro made it happen for him.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:00 AM #22
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So because Wilder, Finkel, Haymon, Showtime and the WBC say they want the Fury fight, Fury should just sign the deal no matter what the terms are? What if all of the above say they want the fight, then make the same outrageous demands for the rematch, even though they really lost the first fight? What if, after being exposed for the first fight being a set up in which Wilder couldn't lose, the second fight was the exact same terms? Why would Fury sign that deal? Would he not be an idiot for signing that deal? Would he not be smarter to try to improve his own position of power, so he can make the fight on his terms? People who keep claiming Fury ducked come across as deluded Wilder nuthuggers and haters. Let's be real here.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:05 AM #23
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Originally Posted by DaNeutral. View Post
Thats where Wilder has gone wrong and his very experienced team and management know what they are doing so i dont think they have just made a mistake in regards to the promotion of Wilder and his career they have purposely done it the way they have and the only reason i can see why they would want to limit the exposure and level of opposition and not build the name and not build the money coming in is because they know Wilder is very vulnerable and at risk of an embarrassing defeat which would set them back so much cuz they dont have much of a hardcore support that is willing to support through the good times and bad.
This right here is very true. It's like his management and promotional teams are trying to use the same tactics that were used with Mike Tyson when he was past his best. Same tactics Don King used to use to keep the belts on his fighters. But Wilder just doesn't have the drawing power for it to work. He can't speak publicly without sounding like an autistic country bumpkin. And there are two fighters in his division who are clearly head and shoulders above him, so it doesn't work. If AJ and Fury didn't exist, I imagine Wilder would be a superstar and Finkel and Haymon et al's plans would be working.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:07 AM #24
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I already told you. They ordered the fight so Wilder could skip Breazeale again. If the "board of governors" didn't order a rematch, Wilder would have had to fight Breazeale. Wilder wanted to fight Fury again, so Moro made it happen for him.
No, they could simply sanction a rematch. Just as they could sanction a unification bout.

And that's what they did. They voted and then sanctioned the fight, thus leaving Wilder free to rematch Fury without a mandatory getting in the way.

Then a few weeks later they ordered the rematch.

Take away the reason behind it for a second, and you would agree that is exactly what happened wouldn't you?
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:20 AM #25
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You clearly have no idea how these orgs operate. If Wilder didn't want the rematch, the WBC wouldn't have ordered the rematch. "Ordering" the rematch is just a way to help Wilder get around having to fight his mandatory.
It seems nobody knows how the business of Boxing works except you, why do you keep going round telling us all we dont know what we are talking about and you do. Like i said i dont actually believe you have ever managed or promoted jack **** but even if its true that dont mean none of us know what we are talking about.

What you are saying is the WBC had to make a move to protect Wilder from the WBC. Protecting Wilder from THEMSELVES. YOU TALK ****. They DID NOT HAVE TO CALL THE MANDATORY. Infact THEY STILL HAVE NOT CALLED THE MANDATORY. What the hell you talking about.

In my opinion, they ordered that Wilder fight because at that moment in time Fury and his team were talking about stepping back and Joshua was offering Wilder a fight and there was no reason for Wilder to ignore those offers to fight Joshua so the WBC came in and ordered a REMATCH of a Voluntary defence while overlooking their MANDATORY again. The minute both Joshua and Wilder were free to negotiate the WBC made sure to put something in place so Joshua and Wilder were not free to negotiate. But then they never stuck to it anyway, as soon as Joshua signed to fight Miller the WBC just let it all go, deadlines gone fight doesnt have to be made.
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Old 03-03-2019, 06:55 AM #26
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Wilder has done nowhere near enough to be sat in Alabama demanding 50-50 from Joshua. Had maybe he started facing killers and opponents people had heard of after 30 fights as a pro maybe he could but he hasnt. Even his own fans say hes been facing Killer after Killer and when asked who those killers where they quote 2 names. Lets be real here. There are YT videos from American fight fans demanding Wilder step up the quality from 2, 3, 4 years ago. This has been a long running issue with Wilder and historically when you pick the easy fights your whole career you dont build your profile, you dont build your fanbase and you dont earn a PPV spot and you dont become a very well known superstar and you dont make mega money every fight.

Anthony Joshua got a lucky start, lets be fair about this, he got his gold medal and they used that and put alot of money in to promoting him big. As a big Joshua fan im not going to try to deny that, but Joshua started facing known names, eye brow raising names, popularity growing names and he was doing after 12 fights as a pro. Had Joshua kept on facing the level of competition from fights 10 to 20 that he had from 1 to 10 we would already be getting bored of him and saying stuff like "Hey you told us he was on a mission so why is he fighting Bob Smith who is a career Cruiser weight with a losing record, im not paying for that ****". Team Joshua got our attention and kept it.

Thats where Wilder has gone wrong and his very experienced team and management know what they are doing so i dont think they have just made a mistake in regards to the promotion of Wilder and his career they have purposely done it the way they have and the only reason i can see why they would want to limit the exposure and level of opposition and not build the name and not build the money coming in is because they know Wilder is very vulnerable and at risk of an embarrassing defeat which would set them back so much cuz they dont have much of a hardcore support that is willing to support through the good times and bad.

1 defeat for Anthony Joshua and he loses all his belts but will still sell out a place like Wembley and still do up to and over a million PPV's. 1 defeat for Deontay Wilder could do so much financial damage its clearly never been worth the risk.
I'm not crazy about Joshua but this pretty much sums things up.
Good call.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:01 PM #27
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It seems nobody knows how the business of Boxing works except you, why do you keep going round telling us all we dont know what we are talking about and you do. Like i said i dont actually believe you have ever managed or promoted jack **** but even if its true that dont mean none of us know what we are talking about.
There are several posters here that know what they're talking about and clearly have worked in the fight game before, but they are the exception. Most posters are very opinionated uneducated fans with no idea how things work. They just watch Hearn videos on IFL and believe everything he says.


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What you are saying is the WBC had to make a move to protect Wilder from the WBC. Protecting Wilder from THEMSELVES.
Yes, exactly. Happens with sanctioning bodies all the time. The rules often get in the way of what would make the most money, so the orgs work in conjunction with promoters and managers to cleverly navigate around the rules without technically breaking them.

Wilder vs Fury II puts a lot more money in the WBC's pocket than Wilder vs Breazeale. And a lot more money in Wilder's pocket. So the WBC and Wilder had every reason to work together to try to facilitate the Fury rematch without violating Breazeale's rights. The way to do that was to have the "board of governors" (Moro's puppets) "order" the rematch, so that it would take precedence over Breazeale's overdue mandatory.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:24 PM #28
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I already told you. They ordered the fight so Wilder could skip Breazeale again. If the "board of governors" didn't order a rematch, Wilder would have had to fight Breazeale. Wilder wanted to fight Fury again, so Moro made it happen for him.
Stiverne was the mandatory for Wilder that got scrapped for the Ortiz fight. Ortiz wasn't even a Mandatory either out replaced Stiverne when the WB C mandated that fight .What you posted doesn't like up to what they previously did which was reinstate Stiverne to fight Wilder after Ortiz fight was cancelled. The Whyte fight is now cancelled is it not ?

This isn't true at all what you posted . If that was the case they Could have skipped over Stiverne as the mandatory because the WBC ordered Stiverne and Breazeale when they replaced him with Ortiz and ordered the Wilder vs Ortiz fight. That didn't happen though Stiverne maintained his mandatory position and stepped in again even though they mandated the Ortiz fight which initially got cancelled .

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Old 03-03-2019, 02:31 PM #29
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This isn't true at all. If that was the case they Could have skipped over Stiverne as the mandatory because the WBC ordered Stiverne and Breazeale when they replaced him.with Ortiz and ordered the Wilder vs Ortiz fight. That didn't happen though Stiverne maintained his mandatory position and stepped in again even though they mandated the Ortiz fight which initially got cancelled .
Haymon offered Stiverne a ton of money to voluntarily allow Ortiz to skip by him. WBC has always allowed these kinds of arrangements and has even encouraged them.

When Ortiz flunked a test, it was time to just give in and get Stiverne out of the way.

With Fury ducking now, it's probably smart to just give in and get Breazeale out of the way as well.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:38 PM #30
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Haymon offered Stiverne a ton of money to voluntarily allow Ortiz to skip by him. WBC has always allowed these kinds of arrangements and has even encouraged them.

When Ortiz flunked a test, it was time to just give in and get Stiverne out of the way.

With Fury ducking now, it's probably smart to just give in and get Breazeale out of the way as well.
Breazeales can take legal action then if a guy out of boxing for two years can get a side step money deal . Breazeales is the mandatory , no one else. He doesn't lose that spot as you claim unless the Fury fight had happened . Fury was a voluntary defense that was not a Mandatory fight. The WBA is avoiding Breazeale .
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