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Old 06-14-2019, 09:37 AM #31
mick1303 mick1303 is offline
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There were various branches of Cossacs (Kozaks).

The most significant historically were from Zaporizhzhya and from Don region. Also there were Ural kozaks, but they are geographically far from the region so we can put them aside.

Don kozaks were much more loyal to Russian empire. They never sided with foreign forces against Russia, unlike Zaporizhzhya kozaks, who at some point in 17th century were the part of Polish invasion.

Also Don kozaks were never involved in slave trading, while Zaporizhzya kozaks known to sell Ukrainian people to Turks (which official Ukrainian history of course would like to swipe under the rug).

After Catherine the Great destroyed the Zaporizhzya Sich, some of those troops were relocated to Kuban river, where they formed another branch of kozaks.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:43 AM #32
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Originally Posted by Banderivets View Post
Just stop...you are trying to enlighten people here without proper knowledge.

Cossack history is complicated, the real Cossacks originated in and are Ukrainian and always have been. They are not an ethnic group, stop reading wikipedia you can simply become a Cossack, there are no racial/ethnic barriers to entry.

For your knowledge being a Cossack is the quintessence of being Ukrainian so I don't know how you made the Usyk is more Russian than Ukrainian connection because he's a "cossack" it would actually be the opposite. Go look at the lyrics of the Ukrainian anthem...

"We will lay our soul and body for the cherished freedom.
Cossack blood will raise the nation of the joyous people."


Usyk is a Russian speaking Ukrainian, which means jack ****, half the country speaks Russian that's just the result of the Russification of the Ukrainian people that took place during the times of the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union.

Most of the soldiers fighting in the war today on the Ukrainian side are Russian speakers.

Being a Russian speaking Kazakh or Ukrainian has nothing to do with being affiliated with Russia..........Mexicans and Cuban's don't give a **** about Madrid.

Ukrainians speaking Russian is like the Irish speaking English.

It's quite simple, there are Russians and there are Ukrainians. With Ukrainians its very simple, they are either Russian speakers or Ukrainian speakers, they can be Catholic or Orthodox, they are different ethnicities, all have and always will be.

Russians, well that's a lot more complicated. Many languages, ethnicities, religions...

Ask Khabib if he's Russian? I think the answer will not be all that simple.


That being said, all Usyk is saying that there will simply be too much politics from both sides of the media and it will not be a good sporting event for that reason. He has no beef with Povetkin.

Russian Ukrainian relations are at an all time low and are not looking to improve in the foreseeable future, which is unfortunate so it just doesn't make sense to make this fight.

He also said that he didn't want to fight Gassiev in Moscow, but he had to to get the belts.
Shut the fu..ck up, you dumb jock.

Where in my post did I say Cossack is an ethnic group? Apart from being an utterly dumb weasel, you obviously can't read and comprehend.

I said Usyk is a Slav just like Povetkin and they both belong to the same ethnic group. It's basically like a Celt from Ireland and Scotland. How's that difficult for you to understand, you idiot?

The Cossacks in Crimea did fight alongside the Russians against Ukraine in the annexation of Crimea. And if Usyk is from the Russian speaking part of Ukraine that spreads from South Eastern Ukraine, all the way to Eastern Ukraine and Crimea, then I don't believe the political excuse he's using. The Russian speaking park of Ukraine are pro-Russia for the most part politically.

He might be trying to play it safe but it's still a flimsy excuse since it didn't stop even Ukrainian boxers from Western Ukraine who're mostly anti-Russia from fighting Russian boxers.

Look at this uneducated schmuck fool trying to educate me on something I studied, lol. You meet all kinds of clowns on the internet everyday.

BTW, Khabib is from Dagestan like Glassiev is an Ossetian and both aren't even Slavs or proper Russians but they might even be more nationalistic than Russian Slavs. Khabib has shown several times he's a Russian nationalist, despite being a Muslim.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:44 AM #33
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Originally Posted by Koba-Grozny View Post
It's the Caucasus, not central Asia - but I meant to ask him the same question... not so many dudes - especially from the US know much about regional issues like that. Dude's bang on though - kinda what I was referring to in my own post but I didn't have time to expand on.

Come to think of it though, I've got an idea he might not be a US dude despite the name... could be he mentioned something about Germany maybe. Can't remember now.
I actually thought the Caucasus were in Central Asia? My supervisor is a 58 year old White man from Florida. He travels frequently, and hates screening! He asked a TSA Agent "Do I look Muslim?" I had to laugh then educate him! He thought all Muslims looked like Arabs!
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:48 AM #34
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Banderivets

Dumb jock, this is from Britannica:

In the 21st century, under Russian Pres. Vladimir Putin, Cossacks resumed their historical relationship with Moscow. Cossack auxiliaries bolstered local police forces within Russia, most notably at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games, but their use of harsh tactics and enforcement of a conservative moral code sparked concerns among human rights organizations, Cossack paramilitary groups fought alongside Russian troops during the 2008 invasion of Georgia, and they participated in Russia’s armed annexation of the Ukrainian autonomous republic of Crimea in 2014 as well as the subsequent Russian-backed insurgency in eastern Ukraine. According to the 2010 Russian census, some 68,000 people identified themselves as ethnic Cossacks.
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Stop arguing shyt you know nothing about. Usyk is a closet pro-Russian guy since he's a Cossack from Crimea. He's just making an excuse. It's a dangerous fight.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:52 AM #35
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Guys, stop this political excuses, Usyk is afraid of loosing to Povetkin!

And THAT'S when politics come in the way: it's about Loss, not about fight itself.
People won't forgive him loosing to nationalistic russian when Usyk himself goes to russian church and doesn't openly criticize russia for annexing Crimea to have a possibility visiting his relatives in Crimea.

This political risk comes ONLY if he looses and therefore all boxing fans should know that is just an excuse to duck a fight. Why I'm sure? He didn't duck Gassiev fighting in russia! Ukrainians don't care whether Gassiev is of caucassian or russian ethnicity, we care that that venue happened in russia against russian citizen!

Last edited by Ajvar; 06-14-2019 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:53 AM #36
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Originally Posted by Koba-Grozny View Post
Good to hear, man. It's not really a sleight but an observation that many US dudes tend not to be that aware of this kinda regional issue.
They don't teach about the region much at all in the states! Even during the Cold War, we weren't taught just how HUGE the USSR was?
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:54 AM #37
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Originally Posted by Ajvar View Post
Guys, stop this political excuses, Usyk is afraid of loosing to Povetkin!
And THAT'S when politics come in the way: people won't forgive him loosing to nationalistic russian when Usyk himself goes to russian church and doesn't openly criticize russia for annexing Crimea to have a possibility visiting his relatives in Crimea.

This political risk comes ONLY if he looses and therefore all boxing fans should know that is just an excuse to duck a fight. Why I'm sure? He didn't duck Gassiev fighting in russia! Ukrainians don't care whether Gassiev is of caucassian or russian ethnicity, we care that that venue happened in russia against russian citizen!
This is the truth. Povetkin is high risk and low reward and that's why he's running. Politics is just an excuse since he's most likely pro-Russian as well.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:12 AM #38
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Originally Posted by Bronx2245 View Post
They don't teach about the region much at all in the states! Even during the Cold War, we weren't taught just how HUGE the USSR was?
Funny isn't it.. I think the USSR always seemed to be treated in the West like some kinda monolithic entity but in fact there was over a hundred nationalities or ethnic groupings in an area spanning 11 time zones. I only know more about it than most cos I read a lot and my old man was a staunch Stalinist and Russophile so I kinda had an interest despite being UK/Greek myself.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:19 AM #39
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Originally Posted by angkag View Post
Yes, at the risk of dumbing things down a bit, the Cossacks have historically been the kind of Spartans of the region, a sort of military class that has been of use to whichever side they fight on in the endless wars in the region.

The Cossack history with russia is a bloody one - the word Decossackisation exists for a reason. Plus Yalta at the end of WWII where Cossacks figthing for the Nazis were repatriated back to Russia by the British - most either executed immediately or straight into the Gulag system - Sean Bean's character in the James Bond movie Goldeneye is a descendant of a Cossack bent on destruction of the UK economy because of the British betrayal of the Cossacks at Yalta.
The Cossacks have a very complicated history with Russia. There are different groups of Cossacks, and some have sided with Russia in in conflicts at different points in history, while others haven't.

One group of Russian Cossacks actually helped Putin to invade the Crimean part of Ukrania.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:19 AM #40
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Originally Posted by Bronx2245 View Post
I actually thought the Caucasus were in Central Asia? My supervisor is a 58 year old White man from Florida. He travels frequently, and hates screening! He asked a TSA Agent "Do I look Muslim?" I had to laugh then educate him! He thought all Muslims looked like Arabs!
Central Asia is usually regarded as the area East of the Caspian whereas the Caucasus is between the Caspian and Black seas. Honestly though I was kinda being pedantic - it's probably close enough unless you're talking to someone from the region... though the Caucasians tend to be quite prickly dudes, got that kinda old school death before dishonour thing going on, so you might want to brush up on that if you ever visit the region
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