Thoughts on Roy Jones Jr. Legacy

[The Old LefHook]

Seeking the best fighters out to fulfill a formality is not enough. If they have to be sought out with a vengeance, then that is how it must be done. There was a price that would have moved both the kraut and the Welshman across any sea. Jones's financial genius (so he thought) was to hog most of mediocre pursues by promoting the fights too, and using mediocre mandatory opponents not used to making a lot. He could have taken the short end against a couple of these holdouts and taken everything they had, and he still could have made more than the $5 mil he was normally making for fights. He was afraid of being manipulated by the bigtime promoters of the day. More likely he is a glory hog and wants to be able to say he did everything himself. He likes to be smarter than the public. One way to do that is to give them seemingly stellar performances embedded in lousy fights. Mostly talk and showboat. Brag about the action you will give, but give little on fight night. Fooled 'em again, and took home the bacon. A real promoter could have made him a lot more than those end cuts.

By refusing to ever fight out of the U.S. he was drawing directions for guys like Calzaghe and the kraut and any other non-American on exactly how to avoid him.

[mickey malone]

Seeking the best fighters out to fulfill a formality is not enough. If they have to be sought out with a vengeance, then that is how it must be done. There was a price that would have moved both the kraut and the Welshman across any sea. Jones's financial genius (so he thought) was to hog most of mediocre pursues by promoting the fights too, and using mediocre mandatory opponents not used to making a lot. He could have taken the short end against a couple of these holdouts and taken everything they had, and he still could have made more than the $5 mil he was normally making for fights. He was afraid of being manipulated by the bigtime promoters of the day. More likely he is a glory hog and wants to be able to say he did everything himself. He likes to be smarter than the public. One way to do that is to give them seemingly stellar performances embedded in lousy fights. Mostly talk and showboat. Brag about the action you will give, but give little on fight night. Fooled 'em again, and took home the bacon. A real promoter could have made him a lot more than those end cuts.

By refusing to ever fight out of the U.S. he was drawing directions for guys like Calzaghe and the kraut and any other non-American on exactly how to avoid him.

Indeed, rarely fought far away from his front door, and virtually had his own judges for most of the early years.. Much like many of the krauts

[phallus]

Great fighter, but should have take more big fights in his prime. He was the money man in his divisions, could have made any fight if he really wanted to. Oscar, Chavez, Chavez jr, canelo, Leonard, Floyd, Tyson, all the money guys and they rarely had fights they wanted get rejected

We've done this so many times.

He could not have made any fight.

You cannot make guys fight you if they don't want to.

It's just ignorant to think otherwise.

Guys like: Liles, Dariusz, Eubank, Hopkins and Joe didn't want to fight him.

Then there was boxing politics that prevented fights with the likes of Benn.

benn wanted to fight roy, he tried to get his manager to make the fight even though he knew he would have lost.

Prime Roy's speed and reflexes were out of this world. The most impressive that I have ever witnessed in my time watching the sport.

However, once he got older and those gifts diminished he became a mere mortal. And his boxing IQ wasn't high enough to overcome, unlike Floyd or Hopkins whose knowledge of the craft allowed them to stay on top even at an advanced age.

without his amazing reflexes and speed, roy would have had to learn to depend on technique. at 35 this is very hard to do, he never thought his gifts would disappear or he would have prepared for that

Now this, sir, is the precise truth. Take away those fabulous gifts and Jones did not have a deep medicine bag of traditional skills. It is also very likely he never had much of a chin, either.

Jirov is someone else Jones should have gotten around to thrashing. Jones could have used a cruiserweight title. He never had one. That is a serious legacy omission for someone now with unexpected legacy shortfalls.

But Jones was too busy making rap records and honoring himself. It is comical now watching him look for a black squawk-war with anyone who names someone else as the greatest. These guys have to blow their own horns--no one else will do it whose opinion is taken seriously.

We musta not forgot at all.

i would have loved to have seen roy fight calzaghe when they were both in their prime, jirov ( would have been a tough fight because the russian is so mentally strong), chris byrd and maybe tython. bite would have been really dangerous for roy in the early rounds. a tython fight could have potentially been the biggest payday roy ever made, maybe 100 million for one night's work

[TonyGe]

Prime Roy's speed and reflexes were out of this world. The most impressive that I have ever witnessed in my time watching the sport.

However, once he got older and those gifts diminished he became a mere mortal. And his boxing IQ wasn't high enough to overcome, unlike Floyd or Hopkins whose knowledge of the craft allowed them to stay on top even at an advanced age.

I think Roys boxing IQ was just fine. Jim Lampley once said that Roy was one of the smartest boxers in and out of the ring he had ever met. I think it was more a matter of temperament and stubborness as to why he didn't change his style. Roy did things his way for better or for worse and to hell with the consequences. If anyone thinks he didn't understand the nuances of boxing given his amature background they're kidding themselves.

[The Old LefHook]

I think Roys boxing IQ was just fine. Jim Lampley once said that Roy was one of the smartest boxers in and out of the ring he had ever met. I think it was more a matter of temperament and stubborness as to why he didn't change his style. Roy did things his way for better or for worse and to hell with the consequences. If anyone thinks he didn't understand the nuances of boxing given his amature background they're kidding themselves.

Understanding nuances and knowing they are there and that they exist is different from practicing them until they are an instinct. Sure, Roy was cognizant of many things in a boxing ring. He had incredible boxing knowledge, groomed to be a champ from an early age by a daddy who fought Marvin Hagler. But things you only know about yet have not practiced to an instinct can only partially serve you, or may even do you an actual disservice, since as Pope observed: A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[robertzimmerman]

Seeking the best fighters out to fulfill a formality is not enough. If they have to be sought out with a vengeance, then that is how it must be done. There was a price that would have moved both the kraut and the Welshman across any sea. Jones's financial genius (so he thought) was to hog most of mediocre pursues by promoting the fights too, and using mediocre mandatory opponents not used to making a lot. He could have taken the short end against a couple of these holdouts and taken everything they had, and he still could have made more than the $5 mil he was normally making for fights. He was afraid of being manipulated by the bigtime promoters of the day. More likely he is a glory hog and wants to be able to say he did everything himself. He likes to be smarter than the public. One way to do that is to give them seemingly stellar performances embedded in lousy fights. Mostly talk and showboat. Brag about the action you will give, but give little on fight night. Fooled 'em again, and took home the bacon. A real promoter could have made him a lot more than those end cuts.

By refusing to ever fight out of the U.S. he was drawing directions for guys like Calzaghe and the kraut and any other non-American on exactly how to avoid him.

Again, why would Roy have sought out Calzaghe with a vengeance?

We now have the benefit of hindsight. We know that Joe was a very good-great fighter. We can look back and see how he ended his career against Lacy, Kessler and Hopkins. But try and see things as they were when Roy was at his best, before he moved up and fought Ruiz at HW.

What had Joe done from 1997-2002? His best win was over a still game but faded Eubank. He then had a good close win over Reid, followed by one over Woodhall. But he didn't create a good first impression on his Showtime deal, with poor performances against Starie and Thornberry. He then went on to beat Sheika and McIntyre. He'd done nothing. He hadn't made waves in the U.S. and he was fighting for an organisation which wasn't respected, in a division that Roy had left years earlier. So tell me why Roy would have chased him and tried to shame him into a fight? The world's best fighter does not chase down relatively unknown fighters from different divisions. Roy had no need to do that. Until Joe beat Lacy in 2006, most U.S. boxing fans didn't know who he was.

If you followed Joe's career like I did, you'd realise that he wouldn't have fought Roy for any amount of money. And that's because his main objective was to retire undefeated. A loss would have destroyed him psychologically.

Dariusz shared a lot of similarities with Joe. He must have known going into his fight with Hill that he couldn't have kept his WBO belt alongside the IBF and the WBA belts. He didn't seem at all fazed when he was stripped, and he seemed very content in milking his WBO belt in Germany. No amount of money was going to take him over to the U.S. to fight Roy.

You can criticise Roy for not going to Germany, but he had all 3 of the main belts at the time, he'd been scarred by the Olympics in Seoul, and he'd seen Dariusz feign injury in order to get Graciano Rocchigianni disqualified in their first fight. And although not fighting Dariusz left a whole in his resume, let's not pretend that it would have been akin to members of the 'Fab Four' missing out on fighting each other.

[robertzimmerman]

benn wanted to fight roy, he tried to get his manager to make the fight even though he knew he would have lost.



without his amazing reflexes and speed, roy would have had to learn to depend on technique. at 35 this is very hard to do, he never thought his gifts would disappear or he would have prepared for that



i would have loved to have seen roy fight calzaghe when they were both in their prime, jirov ( would have been a tough fight because the russian is so mentally strong), chris byrd and maybe tython. bite would have been really dangerous for roy in the early rounds. a tython fight could have potentially been the biggest payday roy ever made, maybe 100 million for one night's work

Yes, Benn would definitely have fought Roy.

The issue was with King and Roy and his advisors.

[OctoberRed]

Yes, Benn would definitely have fought Roy.

The issue was with King and Roy and his advisors.

IMO, Jones would have played with Benn.

[BattlingNelson]

IMO, Jones would have played with Benn.

Yeah. Jones is a great fantasy fighter. Maybe the GOAT.

[robertzimmerman]

IMO, Jones would have played with Benn.

I think Nigel would have been very dangerous early. But if Roy was still in front of him after 4-5 rounds, I think he'd have gotten picked apart.