A Peculiar Offer By Dempsey: Winner Take All vs. Wills

[travestyny]

I've posted an excellent article that describes the intricacies of the times and the barriers that prevented the bout from occurring. Read it then ask yourself why you did not try to explain the full story but instead cherry picked ONLY the portion that would boister your agenda. It's called intellectual dishonesty.

How many times do I have to say the same thing like a broken record. YOUR LINK DOES NOT MENTION THE CONTRACT THAT DEMPSEY SIGNED....AT ALL. The only thing that comes from that saga was your link saying, "$300,000 dollars was waiting for Dempsey in Chicago." THAT'S IT. I can't say that any more to you!!!! How is there any intellectual dishonesty when I'm merely pointing out a fact: That Demspey signed a contract and then bailed. It's YOU who REFUSES to address that AT ALL. You won't go near it.

As a start why don't you discuss the color line? That's a book in of itself. Understanding the culture that led to the color line is critical in explaining the reason why from say 1880 (could go back much further) to 1950 only two black fighters fought a white hwt champion for the title. One, Johnson, gained his title shot against a non American (hugely significant in of itself) and Louis, who had to conduct himself in a manner that was acceptable to white society in order to garner his title shot vs Braddock. These are critical history lessons you do not discuss in your effort to push an obvious agenda.

Discuss the color line? OK.

Dempsey drew the color line twice. Once as soon as he won the title, and then he renounced it, and then he drew it again. When he renounced it, he said he was willing to fight any boxer. Then when he drew it again, he said he would not fight any black fighter.

Then apparently he renounced it again. YOUR link, that you keep harping on, says clearly that in 1922 (I think that's the year), a national poll was taken and Harry Wills was chosen as the guy people wanted to see in there with Dempsey.

Again, none of this has anything to do with there being a valid contract and Dempsey breaking the contract.

Are you ever going to address who was responsible for Dempsey breaking the contract to fight Harry Wills? Who is responsible for that if not Jack Dempsey??????? I've asked about 3 times now.

[travestyny]

--- Teensy, every village has at least one, and certainly you have proved yerself a veritable complete village of idiots.

I told you at the beginning to leave this talk out of my thread. If you can't discuss this without insults, then take your posts elsewhere. The fact that you're getting upset and throwing around insults, especially when I've verified everything I've said here, shows that you simply can't handle the truth.

Let me remind you of the rules of this forum, from our Mod, BattlingNelson :

1: Keep the debate civil and respect your fellow posters. Things may get heated at times, but keep flames at a minimum or go to Non Stop Boxing.

I will not let you get my thread closed by inciting a flame war.

Half the stuff you cut and paste is illegible even on a my big screen, and the rest shows the conniving legalese backside of boxing with Dempsey being sued right and left after leaving Kearns for trying to make the Willard fight. It's small wonder he laid up for 3 years to actually make some actual money instead of shady promotions moving the majic shell game of money around the tables for the rubes to guess at. Fights fall out to this very day over the same shell games.

There is clearly a bar above all of the articles that, if you click, enlarges the article. I've done it myself, and the article goes to full size. If you have a problem with that, either choose a different browser (I suggest Chrome) or buy a new computer.

As for Dempsey being sued. Yea. He was taken to court because he broke a contract to face Harry Wills. The contract was found to be valid, and an injunction was granted to stop him from fighting Tunney, albeit one that could only be enforced in Indiana, though there were attempts to have it enforced in Pennsylvania. Do you want to address that?

Without yer stupid cartoon cut and paste, yer illiterate and utterly tone deaf and have yet to show one redeeming value beyond yer bleating of your Johnny One Note refrain.

Your insults won't save you from this:


Did Jack Dempsey break a contract to face Harry Wills? I'm awaiting your clear response. Yes or no?

[BattlingNelson]

travestny. Boxingscene has an ignore function. You and everybody else is free to use it at your own discretion.

And yes folks. Keep it civil please.

[Dempsey-Louis]

I feel certain Dempsey was speaking "with tongue firmly planted in cheek."

Think about the time frame: this was August of 1926 just weeks before the Tunney fight in Phily. Muldoon (NYSAC) had been threatening to strip Dempsey of his title (on and off since 1922) - this was just a PR retaliation to Wills, who was constantly badgering Dempsey, claiming he was the right-full challenger.

Wills/Muldoon had been trying to throw a wet blanket on the Tunney fight; Dempsey was just 'doubling down' on Will's constant challenges, knowing full well Wills was in no position (money wise) to accept any such offer.

Look closely at the article and you will see this isn't really about Wills, it was about Dempsey grabbing an opportunity to smack back at the State of New York (NYSAC), for all the S*** they had been giving him.

Some Tammany Hall politicians owned a piece of Wills and with Muldoon (NYSAC) as their stooge had been trying to force a Dempsey-Wills fight since 1922.

Tammany stood to gain big off a Dempsey-Wills fight in New York. The politicians were in a position to take, and then take again. Tammany Hall was good at that.

(The politicians who owned Wills would never have allowed him to take such a fight, if there was a possibility of it being a no money fight, and Dempsey knew that.)

New York had gotten greedy and over played its hand, not only did they not get the Wills fight, they lost the Tunney fight because of it. New York got what it deserved.

New York went all in with Wills because they owned a piece of him; Dempsey was just smacking them back with BS.

Too bad Dempsey didn't take the Wills fight, in just two months Sharkey would expose just how shot Wills was by '26.

Of course it is NOT a fabrication, it is in the New York Times archive. Why even address such a silly notion? Ignore them.

[The Old LefHook]

The articles from the NYT are excellent sources. They read fine even on my dinosaur computer. Facts get in the way of some people. Strangely, articles of the day do require interpretation. The articles were longer than today's newspaper articles because that is most of the news people had. One thing anyone cannot do is cast doubt on their authenticity. Oh, wait, someone already has? Duh! I think the articles really existed fellas. Duh.

[travestyny]

Tell everyone why you completely ignore the entire history as outlined within the article I have posted.

You want me to address the entire history. Fine. Here is the history up until 1925, which I will reproduce below, and I'll add in 1926.

Actually, I'll go back to 1918.



1918:
Nov 16: Apparently draws the color line against Joe Jeannette. Claims he will fight any white boxer for a war benefit, but won't fight a "colored boy."

My take: This was for a charity. Only a 6 round bout. I'm quite certain that Kearns was against this bout taking place. I'm also quite certain that Dempsey could have stepped it up, been his own man, and taken the fight for a good cause. He was booed wildly by the crowd for declining.

1919:
July 5th: Dempsey announces that he will draw the color line.

My take: If he drew the color line in 1919, why is he saying that Wills was the ONLY fighter that he ever wanted to fight in a statement in 1926. Why publicly announce this? Perhaps to set some fans minds at ease? Ok. But I don't think you should say, "He was the only one I wanted to face since 1919 when you know you gave a statement drawing the color line in that year. That's common sense.

1920:
July 19th: Dempsey erases the color line. Says he'd face anyone and that he needs the money.

My Take: Great! Then there is no excuse for him to not fight any Black heavyweights from here on out.

1921:
July 8th: Dempsey again draws the color line. Says because he has done so, he is free to say Wills is a great champion. One who would whip the best of them.

My take: Sooooo....he again draws the color-line, specifically mentioning Wills in the statement, revealing that he won't fight him at that time. But apparently he was the only man Dempsey wanted to fight since 1919.

1922:
June 13: Paddy Mullins posted a challenge for Harry Wills to face Dempsey.

June 23: Commission gave Dempsey ten days to accept.

June 29: Dempsey formally accepted and urged immediate conference to decide on date.

July 11: Dempsey and Wills signed contract to meet within sixty days after a reliable promoter undertook to stage match.

1923:
Feb 2: Muldooon announced that Dempsey would not be permitted to meet either Wills or Willard in New York State. All heavyweight bouts were banned.

My take: This had nothing to do with Dempsey. The fight at that point would have had to take place elsewhere. Maybe it could, or maybe no one would be willing.

Aug. 24: Licenses were granted to Dempsey and Kearns.

Sep. 6: Dempsey, hearing Mullins attempted to prevent his bout with Firpo, said Wills never would get chance.

My take: It should be understandable why Wills is trying to prevent Dempsey from fighting Firpo. Why is Dempsey saying that he will never give Wills a shot at this point???

Sept. 10: Will's petition to stop Firpo bout was denied.

1924:
May 1: Rickard announced Dempsey and Wills to meet in Jersey City in September.

July 5: Rickard announced Dempsey NOT to fight in 1924

My Take: So they were said to fight that year, and then Dempsey is pulled out of fighting the entire year???? Seems odd, indeed.

1925:
March 6: NY Commission issues ultimatum that Dempsey must agree within twenty-four hours to fight Wills.

March 7: Kearns said Dempsey would meet Wills if commission financed the match.

My take: Huh? When do commissions finance matches? If Dempsey wanted Wills since 1919, as he stated himself, then why are these shenanigans occurring?

March 8: The limit for accepting Wills bout is extended to fifteen days.

March 24: Dempsey is placed on the ineligible list.

My Take: So he refused to fight Wills and they put him on the ineligible list. Not sure what else to say about that.

April 23: Dempsey said he would give Rickard two weeks to arrange meeting with Wills.

My take: Yes! Dempsey standing up and going for this fight! Good stuff.

April 28: Dempsey appeared before commission but failed to answer question directly, leaving that for Kearns.

My take: Ok, I take it back. I guess he wasn't willing to stand up for this fight happening.

July 16: Returned from Europe and was signed by Rickard for Wills bout.

My take: Great!

July 17: Appeared before commission and formally accepted Wills challenge.

My take: Great stuff, Dempsey. Much respect!

Aug. 4: Commission announced champion ineligible until signed for match.

My take: Let's sign it, Dempsey!

Sept. 9: Signed with Floyd Fitzsimmons to meet with Wills-all forfeits posted.

My take: Yes! Great!

Sept. 28: Will and Dempsey meet for contract ceremony!

Sept. 29: Dempsey walks away claiming that Fitzsimmons reneged on the money he promised.

My take: Well that was short lived. I won't blame Dempsey for that.

1926:
March 13: Dempsey signs a contract to fight Harry Wills. In accordance with the contract, he is to be paid $300,000 on August 5th and $500,000 at least 10 days before the fight.

My take: He signed! It's on now!

July 10: Dempsey sends a letter to the promoter claiming that there is no contract. Claims that he didn't receive money that was promised and subsequently tore up his contract.

My take: So....he signed a contract that stated he should receive $300,000 on August 5th as his first payment, yet broke the contract on July 10th claiming that he didn't receive his money???? That makes absolutely no sense.

Aug 3rd: The promoter files a bill in superior court to enjoin Dempsey from fighting Tunney or anyone else besides Wills.

Sept. 13: A decree was entered in the superior court of Marion county, finding that the contract was a valid and subsisting contract between the parties. Also, a decree was entered that Dempsey be perpetually restrained and enjoined from in any way, wise, or manner, training or preparing for or participating in any contracts or engagements in furtherance of any boxing match, prize fight or any exhibition of like nature, and particularly from engaging or entering into any boxing match with one Gene Tunney, or with any person other than Harry Wills.

My take: Well, the court found the contract to be valid. The court also granted an injunction from Dempsey fighting Tunney, stating that he must fight Wills. Too bad this was later found to only be binding in Indiana, which allowed Dempsey to wiggle out to Pennsylvania.

Aug 5th: The promoter reveals that a guaranteed check for $300,000 is waiting for Dempsey at Equitable Trust and Saving Bank in Chicago.

My take: Looks like the promoter upheld it's part of the contract. Dempsey ducking out of this comittment.

Aug. 19th: Dempsey says that he posted $150,000 with Thomas Shaw for a winner take all bout with Harry Wills, in the event that he beats Tunney. Claims the money was six drafts for $25,000. Claims he wanted to fight Wills and only Wills since 1919.

Aug. 21st: Thomas Shaw accosted by process servers, one of which is a Deputy Sheriff. Shaw, under threat of jail-time and a fine, denies having any cash, certified check, or drafts from Dempsey.

My take: Appears that this was all a lie.


So, that should about sum up EVERYTHING that happened. As you can see, I didn't blame Dempsey for everything. You can also stop accusing me of cherrypicking at this point. Now are you willing to address that broken contract?

[travestyny]

I feel certain Dempsey was speaking "with tongue firmly planted in cheek."

Think about the time frame: this was August of 1926 just weeks before the Tunney fight in Phily. Muldoon (NYSAC) had been threatening to strip Dempsey of his title (on and off since 1922) - this was just a PR retaliation to Wills, who was constantly badgering Dempsey, claiming he was the right-full challenger.

Wills/Muldoon had been trying to throw a wet blanket on the Tunney fight; Dempsey was just 'doubling down' on Will's constant challenges, knowing full well Wills was in no position (money wise) to accept any such offer.

Look closely at the article and you will see this isn't really about Wills, it was about Dempsey grabbing an opportunity to smack back at the State of New York (NYSAC), for all the S*** they had been giving him.

Some Tammany Hall politicians owned a piece of Wills and with Muldoon (NYSAC) as their stooge had been trying to force a Dempsey-Wills fight since 1922.

Tammany stood to gain big off a Dempsey-Wills fight in New York. The politicians were in a position to take, and then take again. Tammany Hall was good at that.

(The politicians who owned Wills would never have allowed him to take such a fight, if there was a possibility of it being a no money fight, and Dempsey knew that.)

New York had gotten greedy and over played its hand, not only did they not get the Wills fight, they lost the Tunney fight because of it. New York got what it deserved.

New York went all in with Wills because they owned a piece of him; Dempsey was just smacking them back with BS.

Too bad Dempsey didn't take the Wills fight, in just two months Sharkey would expose just how shot Wills was by '26.

Of course it is NOT a fabrication, it is in the New York Times archive. Why even address such a silly notion? Ignore them.

Agreed with everything you said. It just seemed so strange that he kept insisting that this wasn't a bluff. But I do get that it most likely was a bluff...just to "clap back" at some people.

As always, much respect, bro!

[travestyny]

The articles from the NYT are excellent sources. They read fine even on my dinosaur computer. Facts get in the way of some people. Strangely, articles of the day do require interpretation. The articles were longer than today's newspaper articles because that is most of the news people had. One thing anyone cannot do is cast doubt on their authenticity. Oh, wait, someone already has? Duh! I think the articles really existed fellas. Duh.

Mr.MojoRisin', can you respond to this or show any proof you have that the FOUR articles relating to this Winner Take All offer are fabrications? And please, keep it civil. If you decline to respond, no problem.

[HOUDINI563]

Again you look to the micro to prove a pre conceived agenda and ignore the much more important Macro history. The color line was not a Dempsey creation as you try to portray. It was an American cultural tradition. This is one reason why only Johnson (fighting a non American hwt champion) and Louis (who had to portray himself in a manner to allow the bout to occur) were the only black hwts to fight a white hwt champion in 80 plus years. You ignore this very major historical and cultural issue since you want to fashion your data to lead everyone to your prearranged conclusion.

[Dempsey-Louis]

New York Times Headlines Dempsey-Wills 1922

1922, The year Harry Wills almost got a shot at the HW Title.

The Dempsey-Wills saga as told by the New York Times' headlines; dates denote newspaper publishing date; I attempted to put the headlines in italics, but it did not transfer from MS Word. Too much work to correct now, you will have to discern my remarks form the quoted materials.

The period covered: July 1919 through December 1922. (This still needs work but I am going to post it, as is, for now. I am working on 1923.)


1919

Key Event: July 4th, 1919 Dempsey over Willard for HW Crown KO 3/25

July 6th 1919 - Dempsey Will Meet Only White Boxers - Dempsey quoted “I will pay no attention to Negro fighters.” Only the first paragraph deals with the ‘color line’ issue, the rest is a recap of the Willard fight from just two days earlier.

1920

July 19th 1920 – Color Line Erased by Jack Dempsey - Champion Reverses Attitude and Announces he’ll Take on Wills and Anybody Else – Says he Needs the Money.

Key Event: July 26th, 1920 - Wills over Fulton KO 3/12

July 27th 1920 – Wills Knockouts Fulton in Third – The article makes no mention of Dempsey except to say that Fred Fulton had been a contender for Dempsey’s title; no mention of a possible Dempsey-Wills bout.

1921

May 27th, 1921 – Dusky Battlers to Meet [this is a Wills- Clem Johnson fight announcement] - Article states that “many critics have openly declared that Wills is the best big Negro in the ring today” It also states that “Wills is clamoring for a chance to meet the winner of Dempsey-Carpentier.”

June 4th, 1921 – Atlantic City Odds 3 to 1 on Dempsey - Preparing for the Carpentier fight Kearns replies to what must have been a challenge by Harry Wills, stating that “the negro heavyweight is merely seeking a bit of cheap publicity in offering to come here [Dempsey’s training camp] and attempt to knock Dempsey out, without pay.”

Key Event: July 2nd, 1921 – Dempsey over Carpentier KO 4/12

July 4th, 1921 – Dempsey to Rest and Enjoy Himself - “Kearns says he is prepared to accept a match against Harry Wills if promoters are ready to arrange such a bout.” [Emphasis is mine.] -“Such a bout” seems to be a enthusiasm for an interracial bout; it appears often when the fight is mentioned.

July 7th 1921 – Dempsey-Johnson Bout Proposed - A promoter J.W. McCaw offers Doc Kearns $200,000 for a Dempsey-[Jack] Johnson fight. Added headline claims Kearns Not Enthusiastic.

July 9th 1921 – Dempsey Draws Color line, Unwilling to Meet Johnson. Dempsey is quoted as saying he was unwilling to fight Jack Johnson, “or any other negro fighter.”

December 25th, 1921 - Sport Has Banner Year During 1921 - An assessment of the year in sports; the final line in the boxing section reads: “Harry Wills and Bill Brennan are the only other heavyweights of any class, aside from Dempsey.” (Article speaks mostly of the lighter weights.)

January, 1922

January 2nd, 1922 – Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: This article kicks off the new year by stating: “At this time there is not a heavyweight on the horizon who appears to have a chance with Dempsey.” The article berates Fred Fulton as a loser but makes no mention of Harry Wills.

Key Event: January 17th, 1922 - Wills over Langford PTS 10/10

January 26th, 1922 - Dempsey Is Eager for a Bout Soon - Kearns mentions Wills on the short list with Brennan, Gibbons, and Roper but then adds “I have discussed the prospects of a Wills match with several promoters throughout the country and I have yet to find one favorable to such a proposition.”

January 27th, 1922 – Brady Would Stage Dempsey-Wills Go - Bill Brady of Jeffries-Corbett fame, calls Kearns’ bluff: “Brady is said to be willing to guarantee $200,000 for the match.” In response Tex Rickard is quoted as saying: “Wills is the foremost of Dempsey’s rivals and that such a match between the two men should produce an exciting bout,” but now believes that “public sentiment is against such a contest.”[Emphasis is mine.]

January 29th, 1922 - Brady Posts His Check for $50,000 – Says it’s Kearns Move – Situation is Deadlocked – Both Sides Profess Willingness to Go Ahead, but Neither will Make Advances for a Conference. – Brady and Kearns argue over who should approach who first [it became a pissing contest]; Kearns also claims he wants another Brennan fight first.

January 30th, 1922 – Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: Kearns ‘calls’ Brady’s bluff. - Kearns claims Brady’s $200,000 (75% to Dempsey) offer for a Wills fight is too low and calls on Brady to come find him, instead of talking through the newspapers; egos still flaring on both sides.

January 30th, 1922 – Harry Wills to Referee – Article reads: “Harry Wills, New Orleans colored heavyweight, who is being mentioned as a prospective opponent of Champion Jack Dempsey, is scheduled to . . .” [I included this because I felt it shows that The Times was deliberately keeping Wills in the Headlines; I feel The Times was quietly championing Harry Wills’ cause.]

January 31st, 1922 - Dempsey to Meet Brennan in Garden [fight announcement] – Kearns and Brady debate Wills fight again, same arguments over money ensue; plus another argument over who should approach who first; both invite the other to their offices, neither will move first. [Pissing contest continues.]

February, 1922

February 2nd, 1922 - Brady Not to Get Bout for $200,000 – Kearns Wants Bigger Purse before He Will Match Dempsey and Wills – Kearns is quoted: “Wills I admit, is a strong, rugged heavyweight, and looks like the best prospect for a title-bout right now. I’m ready to close for Dempsey just as suitable terms are offered.” Kearns offers no dollar figure.

February 14th, 1922 - No Dempsey Bout for Indoor Season – Kearns Gives up Hope of Fight for Champion before Open-Air Months Arrive – Kearns quoted: “The Brennan [re]match has been discouraged. That leaves Wills as the most formable rival for the champ. As of yet, however, I have not heard any attractive inducements for a Wills match. . .”

February 28th, 1922 - No site Picked for Dempsey-Wills Go – Flournoy and Kearns Deny Report Boyle’s Thirty Acres has been Chosen for Bout – Article seems to be dispelling a rumor that the fight had been signed. “There is not a thing in it,” declared Frank Flournoy [MSG matchmaker] - The article also digresses into dispelling another rumor that Dempsey would travel to Europe for a Carpentier rematch and instead claims a July 4th fight with Jack Johnson, in Mexico City, was in the works. (Yea, that Jack Johnson, and in Mexico no less.)

March, 1922

March 2nd, 1922 - Norfolk and Wills in Garden Tonight – Winner of Fifteen-Round Bout May Get Chance to Meet Dempsey for Title – The article claims that Dempsey has announced “his willingness to lift the ban on colored fighters” and thus concludes that winner will likely get a shot at the title. The article mentions that Dempsey will be in attendance.

March 2nd, 1922 - Wills over Norfolk KO 2/15

March 4th, 1922 – Edwards Will Not Oppose Big Bout – Jersey Governor will sanction Dempsey-Wills Meeting if Public Demands Contest – The NJ State Boxing Commission took umbrage at the Governor’s statement, forcing him to walk it back, with the Governor adding that he was just offering his own opinion and that “the final say laid with the State Boxing Commission and the people of New Jersey.”

March 5th, 1922 - Harry Frazee makes Jack Dempsey Offer of $350,000 for Title Bout with Wills – Red Sox owner Harry Frazee offers Kearns $350,000 for the fight. (Dempsey would receive 100% of the $350,000 guarantee.)

March 5th, 1922 - Awaits Definite Offer from Frazee – Kearns denies any commitment to the fight; claims he is ready to sign but questions Frazee’s ability to find a venue; Kearns bemoans that he has seen no money from Frazee.

March 6th, 1922 - Big Bout Not for Boston - Commission Takes Stand against Proposed Dempsey-Wills Fight – The State Boxing Commission (unnecessarily) announces that if the fight should occur it will not be held at Fenway Park. The Chairman speaking for the committee stated: “The attitude of the Commissioners from the start has been not to allow such bouts.” [Emphasis is mine.] Like Huckleberry Finn the fight was banned in Boston.

April, 1922

April 2nd, 1922 – Rickard is Firmly Decided on Bout – Reiterates Statement that he Does Not Want to Stage the Dempsey-Wills Go – The article now refers to Wills as: “Harry Wills, giant New Orleans negro who is regarded as the most dangerous contender to the title.” – While Rickard again admits that Dempsey-Wills “looms as the most attractive match available” but claims, yet again, that a venue for the fight cannot be found and that, “unless the public demands it he would not associate himself with a mixed bout.”

April 24th, 1922 – Kearns Sends Word of Foreign Offers – Says Europeans are Angling for Dempsey Bout with Wills or Carpentier – Kearns claims to have an offer from English promoter George McDonald for Dempsey-Wills fight and hints at the possibility of a Carpentier rematch. Paddy Mullins, Wills manager, denies any knowledge of Kearns purported dealings but declares that Wills “is ready to meet Dempsey for the title any place, any time.”

April 6th, 1922 - Champion in Chicago – Dempsey Willing to Give Bill Tate Chance at Title – Article is a announcement of Dempsey’s intention to sail for Europe. The article added that Dempsey “has a good word for Tate, his former sparring partner. Jack asserted that as long as Tate has proved himself a better man than Harry Wills” there was a fight in the offing. (Just three months earlier Tate and Wills had gone 1-1-1- with each other and were both claiming the Color Heavyweight Title.) Howard Carr, Bill Tate’s manger, claims Dempsey gave him a firm promise to fight if “any promoter will offer reasonable terms.”

May, 1922

May 5th, 1922 – Dempsey May Box Willard in Jersey – The article is a Rickard PR piece with Rickard speculating about possible fights and venues – Rickard once again points to Dempsey-Wills as the “most logical” fight to promote but Rickard quickly reiterates the “difficulty a promoter might encounter if he were to undertake the promotion.”

My 8th, 1922 – Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: The article suggests that Kearns isn’t willing to cross the “color line” for fear of diminished gate receipts. Article includes no first-hand interviews, only speculation, but. It does suggest that the public has the fight on its mind.

May 11th, 1922 - Dempsey May Box Wills in Montreal – Matchmaker Flournoy of Garden Makes Secret Visit to Canada – has Strong Backing – Frank Flournoy is quoted as saying: “I have been in conference with influential and prominent business men of Montreal.” – Flournoy refuses to confirm that he made a $300,000 offer to Dempsey. Wills is once again referred to as the “giant New Orleans negro,” but otherwise ignored.

Key Event: May 11th, 1922 Georges Carpentier over Ted (kid) Lewis KO 1/12

May 12th, 1922 – Montreal Trip Fruitless – One day later Frank Flournoy offers a less rosy view of the Montreal situation and switches the conversation to Carpenter’s victory over Ted (Kid) Lewis. Flournoy now suggests that “Dempsey’s next bout, in response to the general demand in Europe, would be with the French champion, in London.”

May 15th, 1922 - Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: “Georges Carpentier is to make another effort to vanquish Jack Dempsey, world’s heavyweight champion. Unless the dark shadow cast by the form of Harry Wills intervenes, Dempsey and Carpentier will clash in a return battle some place in Europe within the next year.” [I didn’t need to emphasis that one, now did I?]

May 18th, 1922 – Tex Awaits Dempsey with Contract to Fight Wills – This article seems to be a Tex Rickard PR piece. Rickards says he is ready, upon Dempsey’s return from Europe, to sign Dempsey to a Wills fight in Montreal. There is no mention of a date or guarantee, nor how Rickard became involved with the Montreal deal, but there is other evidence that Rickard and Flournoy were working together on the side.

May 20th, 1922 – Dempsey, Sporting Monocle, Back Home – Ready to Fight Anyone – The article states: “The titleholder, sporting a monocle and feeling wonderful, expressed his willingness to box Harry Wills.” – Dempsey is quoted as saying: “I’ll fight Wills. Certainly! Why Not? – But once again Dempsey brings up how difficult it will be to promote the fight. Dempsey drops a bombshell, adding: “We signed with London promoters for a bout with Carpentier, to be held sometime between now and June, 1923. People over there are crazy about another fight between Carpentier and myself.” [SIC]

May 20th, 1922 – Decision on the Dempsey-Wills Bout Likely to be Made Today. – Kearns PR piece. Article states that Kearns and Frank Flournoy met the night before at a Madison Square Garden exhibition charity fundraiser (all four round fights, featuring Benny Leonard); Kearns claims he is anticipating a big meeting with Rickard. On introduction Dempsey is roundly cheered by the crowd. No mention of Harry Wills being at the fight.

May 21st, 1922 – Dempsey’s Match with Wills is Off – Champion Rejects Meeting in Montreal July 1, Due to Lack of Time for Training – Tex Rickard uses Dempsey’s statement to add: “I see no chance to hold a bout between Dempsey and Wills in Montreal as had been planned.” – [Montreal fight looks to be off, maybe!]

May 23rd, 1922 – To Talk Terms Today – Kearns and Rickard Will Discuss a Dempsey-Wills Meeting – Rickard throws a wet blanket on the entire endeavor with this press release, restating that the Montreal bout has been abandoned and doesn’t see how it can be promoted.

May 24th, 1922 – Deny Dempsey-Wills Terms are settled – Article seems to be dispelling a rumor that the fight was signed. Further in the article Tex Rickard claims that the problem lays with Kearns who is asking for too much money: “When he told me he wanted $500,000 for the Champion, I asked him if he was crazy.”

May 24th, 1922 – Jersey Bans Big Bouts – Will Not Issue Permit for Dempsey to meet Wills or Willard – State Boxing Commission Chairman Messano on Wills match:” “No permit will be granted . . . because I do not think there is a public demand for such a bout. [Emphasis is mine.]

June, 1922

June 14th, 1922 – Wills Posts $2,500 For Dempsey Fight – Negro deposits Forfeit with Sate Commission to Force Match With Champion – Chairman Muldoon (NYSAC) Intimates [SIC] Title-Holder Cannot Hide Behind Big Financial Demand – Kearns and Dempsey were in L.A., and were unable to be reached for comment.

June 15th, 1922 – Rickard May Build New Fight Stadium – Promoter Ready if Proposed Dempsey-Wills Match Materializes in this State – In what seems to be a PR interview Rickard looks like he is reacting to the previous June 14th post; he seems to have a ‘just in case this does happen I want in’ attitude. Rickard once again claims support for a Dempsey-Wills fight but once again bemoans Kearns $500,000 guarantee, stating “the day of huge big guarantees is passed as far as I am concerned.” Article also states that Paddy Mullins (Will’s manager) met with Flournoy (of the Garden), but no news is offered. The article ends with an announcement that Jess Willard was coming east looking for a fight.

June 20th, 1922 – Jack Kearns, at Chicago, Says Dempsey Has Not Barred Wills – Kearns seems to be looking for an independent deal (without Rickard) claims he was dealing with a Michigan City promoter named Floyd Fitzsimmons regarding a Dempsey- Brennan or Willard fight on Labor Day; pressed with a “color line” question Kearns says “a fight with Wills might take place . . . but it probably would be held in the east.” – adding “if the public wanted the fight it would happen.”

June 21st, 1922 - May Settle Wills and Dempsey Bout – Kearns and Rickard Expected to Discuss Terms for Match at Meeting Today – The article reports yet another announced meeting between Kearns and Rickard; mostly an op-ed piece with no new information but a comprehensive summary of the current situation.

June 22nd, 1922 – Says Dempsey will Accept Wills Bout – Kearns Declares Guarantee of Site is only real Difficulty to be Overcome –

June 23rd, 1922 – Rickard to Stage Dempsey-Wills Go – After Conference with Kearns Promoter Says he Will Go Ahead with Bout –

June 24th, 1922 – Preparing to Sign Articles for Bout – Rickard, Dempsey and Wills Expected to Take Definite Action Within Week – Commission Issues Edict - Warns Kearns that Negro’s Challenge Must be Accepted or Declined by July 10 – NYSAC (Muldoon) warns Dempsey that he may be stripped of title if he does not sign to fight Wills before July 10th. [I would like to add a personal note here: there is some evidence that Muldoon was fronting for some Tammany Hall politicians who had bought-up Wills contract.]

June 25th, 1922 – Dempsey and Wills will Sign Tuesday – Rickard Must Give Ninety Days’ Notice of Time and Place of Bout – Dempsey reacting to Muldoon’s threat, is quoted: The New York Boxing Commission “is the bunk” – “[I am] ready to meet any man in the world if [I] can get a fair percentage . . . but no promoter has made an offer worth considering.”

June 26th, 1922 – Dempsey Arrives Here from Coast – Heavyweight Champion Declares he is Anxious to Fight Wills for Title –

June 27th, 1922 – Fight Articles to be Signed Today – Rickard Announces that Dempsey and Wills will be Formally Matched for Title – A PR release for Rickard stating that a meeting between Kearns and Mullins is set and that he has verbal insurances from both men ‘that they are ready to sign.’ – Kearns, the day before, was not so cooperative telling The Times that he doesn’t plan on signing any papers at the meeting. Kearns then failed to show for the meeting; no deal was made.

June 26th, 1922 - Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: Op-ed piece [re]mentioning that the NYSAC has warned Dempsey that if he fails to sign to fight Wills before July 10th the title will be considered vacant. Article mentions that the NYSAC had already stripped Johnny Kilbane and Johnny Wilson [MW] of their titles.

June 28th, 1922 – Hitch in Dempsey-Wills Bout Plans – Signing of Articles Deferred – Kearns and Mullins Fail to Appear – This time both managers refused to attend the Rickard’s meeting.

June 30th, 1922 – Dempsey Accepts Will’s Challenge – Heavyweight Champion and his manager So Notify State Athletic Commission – May Also Meet Greb – John McGarvey of Pittsburgh Offers $100,000 for Bout in the Smoky City – This looks to be a Kearns press release. Kearns seems to be throwing up a smoke screen regarding the threat to strip Dempsey of the title.

June 30th, 1922 – Governor Adopts ‘Hands Off’ Stand on Dempsey-Wills Bout – Governor Miller (NY) states he has “no objection to a black man fighting a white [man].”

July, 1922

July 2nd, 1922 – Jack Dempsey off on Exhibition Trip – Will Open in Oklahoma City, Returning here Saturday to Sign Articles with Wills –

July 3rd, 1922 – Mullins Waits to Hear from Kearns – Manager of Wills Says he has Heard Nothing Definite about Fight with Dempsey –

July 4th, 1922 – Dempsey to Sign with Wills First – Offers for Title Bouts with Meehan, Greb, and Others Must Wait, Says McKetrick – McKetrick speaking for Kearns dispels rumors of a Meehan and Greb fight; McKetrick claims all other fights off until Dempsey-Wills is signed. Article is mainly a press release regarding Dempsey’s travels and possible entertainment engagements.

July 6th, 1922 – Rickard Expects Prompt Action – Promoter Believes Dempsey and Wills will Sign for Title Bout Saturday –

July 7th, 1922 – Dempsey-Willard Fight is Probable – Former Champion’s manager Says Bout before Oct. 1 is Practically Assured – Kearns begins touting a Dempsey-Willard fight.

July 8th, 1922 – Boxing Managers May Sign Today – Kearns and Mullins Expected to Affix Names to Contract for Dempsey-Wills Bout –

July 9th, 1922 - Dempsey and Wills Still Unmatched – Managers of Heavyweight Boxers Fail to Reach Agreement after Long Session – Mullins will Not Sign – Insists on clause to insure Championship Contest Before End of This Year –

July 10th, 1922 – Kearns Waits for $100,000 Promoter – Dempsey’s manager fails to Hear from Pittsburgher About Match with Harry Greb –

July 11th, 1922 - May Settle Fight Differences Today – Kearns and Mullins to Confer Again Over Proposed Dempsey-Wills Match –

July 12th, 1922 – Dempsey and Wills Agreement Signed – Representatives of Boxers Affix Signatures to Articles for Title Bout – Time and Place Unnamed – Mullins Withdraws his Demand limiting Bidding for Contest to Thirty Days - This looks to be Harry Wills’ best chance at a title shot, but . . .

July 13th, 1922 – Rickard Mentions June 30 as Date – Prospective Promoter of Dempsey-Wills Bout Favors Saturday before July 4th, 1923 –

July 14th, 1922 – First Offer Made for Dempsey-Wills Bout – J. M. Butterly would Stage Contest at Dyckman Oval this September – makes no mention of guarantee.

July 23rd, 1922 – By Products – an op-ed piece bemoaning the growing frustration of the public: “Jack Dempsey and Harry Wills have signed a declaration of war, to take effect whenever they get around to it.”

July 24th, 1922 – Wants Big title Bout – Margolies S. C. of Arverne Makes bid for Dempsey-Wills Fight – [Margolies Sporting Club, New York, NY]

August, 1922

August 7th, 1922 – Kearns Here for Fight Conference – Manager of Dempsey will Talk with promoter Rickard about match with Wills – First line of the article reads: “Important developments are expected . . .” then nothing new is offered.

August 8th, 1922 – Dempsey May Box in South America – Tex Rickard is Considering Promotion of Bout with Firpo, Argentine Heavyweight – Rickard press release mainly dodges Wills issue still bemoaning that the money isn’t there; Kearns claims Rickard and other promoters are at fault for delay, not him.

August 9th, 1922 – Wills Bout No Nearer – Kearns goes to Chicago, Leaving Heavyweight Fight Still in Air –

August 19th, 1922 – Boxing is Assured for Polo Grounds – License granted to Republic Athletic Club – Offer Made for Dempsey-Wills Bout – John M. O’Connor, President of the Republic A. C. armed with a license to stage a fight at the Polo Grounds began new negotiations to get the Dempsey-Wills fight. – Article also notes that the Governor of Michigan, McCray has put the ‘stink’ on the Dempsey-Brennan rematch (Labor Day fight canceled) O’Conner now believes he has a shot at signing Dempsey-Wills.

August 25th, 1922 – Rickard Planning Dempsey-Firpo Go - Promoter Hopes to Stage Battle for World’s Title in South America this Year – Rickard mentions (again) that Wills is the only ‘real’ American challenger but then offers the usual counter argument “but it is impossible too stage that bout within the next year.” – No explanations as to why it is ‘impossible’ are offered.

August 26th, 1922 – Kingston Promoter bids for Big Fight – J. J. Nanco Enters Field of Prospective Holders of battle between Dempsey and Wills – Kearns replied to the newspaper interview that he didn’t take Nanco, of Kingston Jamaica seriously, suggesting that he, Nanco, couldn’t come close to the guarantee he wanted. Kearns stated: “I did not take the letter seriously. I’ll wire him that the match is excepted to draw between a million and a million and a half dollars and let him use his imagination on what terms I will want for the champ.”

August 27th, 1922 – Jack Dempsey May Box Jack Johnson for $500,000 Purse in Mexico, Is Report – Kearns states he is willing to meet with Jack Johnson. Johnson says: “I weigh 222 pounds, only eight pounds overweight, give me three weeks and I will meet any man on earth. I am a better man today than I was ten years ago, much stronger and a harder hitter.” This is likely just more Kearns smoke.

August 31st, 1922 – Rickard’s Deal for Park’s use Pending – Parleys with Yankee’ Owners Held, but Stadium will not be Ready Until Spring – During the interview Rickard was asked if he would stage the Dempsey-Wills fight in the new Stadium and Rickard replied: “. . . that bout will not be held until next June 30th as far as [I am] concerned,” adding that “the event is too far distant to warrant discussion . . .”

September, 1922

September 7th, 1922 – Conditions Named for Dempsey-Wills – Chairman Muldoon of Boxing Commission Demands Promoter Post $250,000 Bond – Also Stipulates that 40,000 Admissions be Offered at $2 – Muldoon goes on to state that the top end seats (for Dempsey-Wills) must be $15 or less and that Rickard must accept all responsibility for a crowd of 100,000 – Kearns reacted to the announcement by stating that he is meeting with Rickard regarding a Dempsey-Brennan or Dempsey-Miske rematch. Rickard also added (again) that he had no intention of promoting a Dempsey-Wills fight until next June.

September 9th, 1922 – New Boxing Rule is Put in Force – Commission Decides Fighters Must Train near where they are to Compete – The new rule required ‘unknown’ fighters to publically train in the New York area for at least a two week before they will be licensed to fight in the State. The rule seems to have been in reaction to a series of recent mismatches; but no fights are identified. The article then goes on to state that Kearns tried to get Muldoon to sanction his Dempsey-Brennan fight (rematch) but Muldoon refused to sanction the fight.

September 13th, 1922 – Dempsey-Wills Go Still Lacks Home – O’Conner Confers with Kearns but Commission’s Ruling is Stumbling Block – O’Conner holds the ‘keys’ to the Polo Ground (as President of the Republic Athletic Club) and is conferring with Kearns – the Commission ruling, being mentioned goes back four days to Muldoon insistence on controlling ticket prices. Both Kearns and O’Conner agree that setting aside 40,000 seats at $3 apiece [SIC] is unrealistic and press Muldoon for a better deal.

Key Event: Battling Siki over Georges Carpentier KO 6/20

September 25th, 1922 – Offers Siki $100,000 to Meet Wills Here – Driscoll Would Stage Bout at Ebbets Field Oct 12 – Rickard to Act Today – Dave Driscoll, match-maker for the Ebbets-McKeever Company is trying to sign Siki to a Wills fight but the article also suggests that Rickard, by offering up the Garden or Veledrome as a possible venues, is trying to steal away the fight.

**For the next several weeks the Dempsey-Wills fight falls off the radar with everyone trying to build a Wills-Siki match. Several offers are made but nothing comes of it. Siki’s manager refers to his fighter as “a gorilla with monkey tricks,” demanding 1,000,000 Francs for the fight. (NY Times, September 26th, 1922)

September 26th, 1922 – Denies Rickard has Bought Fight Area – Director of Montreal stadium says it Has Not Been Sold to Promoter – The arena in question is the Mount Royal Arena and it is clarified that Rickard only leased the arena for a series of Monday night fights. Rickard in his clarification teases again stating that he is considering the venue for a Dempsey-Wills fight next year but first wants to see what the crowds are like. This seems disingenuous considering the venue holds a max crowd of 7,000.

October, 1922

October 10th, 1922 - Comment on Current Events in Sports – Boxing Section: This op-ed piece exhibits a startling change of attitude with the author calling for a Dempsey-Siki fight; the entire boxing section is dedicated to Battling Siki with Wills only getting cursory mention.

November, 1922

November 14th, 1922 – Dempsey and Wills May Clash June 30 – Rickard says his Experience at Toledo in 1919 Precludes Independence Day Date – after a month of silence Rickard once again announces a June 30th 1923 Dempsey-Wills fight but admits he hasn’t signed either fighter. The sub-headline regarding the fights date has Rickard stating: “That experience (Dempsey-Willard) has convinced me that the best summer date for an important boxing match is the Saturday preceding July 4th. [SIC]

November 22nd, 1922 – Rickard Confers with Yanks Owner – Discusses Prospects of Holding Dempsey-Wills Bout at New Ball park – Rickard claims: “Our conference had no definite results; we simply talked fights in general and discussed the possibility of holding important matches at the new Yankee Park.” Rickard would not commit to any discussion regarding Dempsey-Wills.

November 25th, 1922 - Dempsey may take $1,000,000 Offer – His manager Announces Conditional Agreement with Al woods for Three Bouts – First Match with Lewis – Kearns says Contest with Wrestler is Certain – Other opponents May be Wills and Beckett – The “Lewis” mentioned is wrestler Strangler Lewis, otherwise the headlines speak for themselves, Kearns is no longer thinking Wills.

December, 1922

December 12th, 1922 – Kearns and Archer to Discuss Bout – Will Meet in Los Angles to Arrange Match between Dempsey and Willard – Yea me too, can you believe Kearns pulled Willard out his ass again?

December 30th, 1922 – Dempsey Offered Match in England – London Promoter would Guarantee Champion 40,000 [English Pounds] for Bout in May – The British promoter is speaking of the Dempsey-Wills fight; Rickard’s reply, (no surprise) ”This is depended entirely upon the demands of the public.”

The year ends with no more talk regarding Harry Wills.

To be continued . . .