WLAD Vs JESS WILLARD, Who Wins, 15 Round Super HW, Fight

[Greatest1942]

i'm not doubting that willard was large or strong.

at his best he weighed 240ish. i've obviously seen his boxrec, dude. it's a few clicks away. get my facts straight, lol. lighten up.
you aren't telling me anything when you tell me that he weighed 259 lbs in one fight, brother



moving on, for the purposes of my argument, none of that matters. when he was in shape he was in the 240's, which i outlined in my first post.
he and wladimir are amost identical in size. and my opinion, to which i'm as entitled as you are to yours, is that wladimir would be at least as strong as he was.



the discussion of the time period was to outline the FACT (and not opinion) that willards freakish strength (and i'm not arguing agains the fact that he was very strong) in a historic context means a lot less today when he's going to be fighting guys his size, or closer to his size

the fighters that he did fight were on the whole shorter and lighter than hw of later era. that is all

would he still be a strong guy today?
sure. like a bull. probably a heck of a lot stronger than a lot of the guys he would be fighting. look at him. i never called the guy a petunia.


but so is wladimir klitschko, very strong i mean

he's 242ish when he's ripped
just shredded up. like a weight class boxer, or a 15 round HW.
he might even take drugs to get like that.

if he wasn't a vegetarian when he wasn't training and a strict disciplinarian he would easily blow up to 260-270 between fights. he and willard are essentially the same size.


hw today suck, but they are larger than in the past, and have been getting larger consistently since willards day. that's fact and not opinion, brother
there were strong men and large men back then, certainly. and very great fighters, too, that would trash modern HW
but on the whole people were much smaller in 1919. i don't care who you think will laugh at me, to be completely honest, and i don't mean to be an ******* when i say that. they can laugh all they want, it's not going to bother me or make me change my stance on the matter.


and for the bold part
throwing a 500 lb bale of cotton, if it was in vogue back in 1919, didn't last.
that's not good for your back. mine hurts just thinking about it.
willard is the only guy i've heard to try it out
are you talking about his work history in farming or training? can they even fit a 500 lb bale of cotton in the gym ^^ ?


i'm saying there's no way in gods green earth he made a habit out of "tossing" 500 lb bales of cotton as part of his training, and i'm sticking with that

maybe he could "toss" it. i think it would depend a good deal on what you mean by "tossing"
but its not something that you'd be doing on the regular

that would wear you down, especially as you aged.



and if you want to rip on new england for bias toward a time period (and i do not mind, fire away. i generally enjoy your posts, and this site is no fun when everybody agrees with eachother) you should pick somethinging other than post 1990, homeboy, if that's what you're trying to do

Let me put one thing straight first up. I did not say you are biased towards 1990...or heck any era....But I do think you underestimate Willard's strength. And also if I said anything that perturbed you I am sincerely sorry...may be I should have put it other way.

Now Willards Strength :- It has been well documented that Willard was so strong. He did lift 500 pounds and that too easily...He was from childhood a huge man and farm work and other manual labour enhanced his physique... He was naturally strong, thats all.

I can assure you that Willard lifted them and did so with considerable ease, to such a point that one of his friends suggested that he should meet Johnson...Jus think the man turned pro at an improbable 29 years old.

Will you suggest a guy to meet Wlad just because he can lift 200 pounds today and also if he has simply no boxing education? Crazy huh...Willard was strong...I doubt many guys could find strength enough to KO Johnson with that monster uppercut in the 26th round , in that heat.

Everyone who does farm work will not be Willard, other wise Morris might compare to Wlad too..or Fulton..those were big men, but Willard was exception.

Think about one thing the man weighed as much as Wlad without weights, modern nutrition and other stuff. I doubt Wlad would weigh 240 in 1919. Though I am not sure mind you.

I do think he had a much better chin than Wlad...read this
Gunboat Smith told Peter Heller that early on, he threw a good shot at Willard and “his hair wiggled a little bit. That’s all. I said ‘Holy Jesus, that was my best punch, no detours, right from the floor, right on his chin.’” Smith decided to move around him and box him from a safe distance. In the tenth round, a frustrated Willard said “come on out here and fight, you big bum.”

So in the tenth round I hit him with one of my right hands, but it was on the ear. Tore his ear right off. That hushed him up for the rest of the fight. The blood was running down, and oh God, I, of course, had my gloves “loaded.” I had insulation tape laid across my hands.”...Willard still stood all this.


The only reason he was not better was because of his nature, as he himself stated he never liked hurting people...“I really don’t enjoy boxing. I don’t like to hurt people or animals. This is a cruel business and I look forward to the day when I can spend my time building things instead of tying to break men down.” Yet this man killed a man with one single uppercut and I doubt he ever punched his full strength after that.


Whatever way I dont see Willard as the weaker man, if they arm wrestle instead of boxing or do a push or shove game, 9 out of 10 times I will say Jess will beat Wlad, and do it easily.

One last thing...he did not exactly throw 500 pounds of cotton...to practice strength...Willard was discovered casually lifting five hundred pound bales of hay into a truck by himself..when his friend suggested him to join boxing to whip Johnson...I dont know what you mean by if it was in vogue, but I presume you are thinking it was some type of game...HE was simply trying to his farmwork

[Greatest1942]

"hw today suck, but they are larger than in the past, and have been getting larger consistently since willards day. that's fact and not opinion, brother"

One of the reasons they suck is that they are so big all of them. Throughout history there were big men, big heavies, but they were generally hammered...today they rule the roost..no wonder they suck...

Yea you can hold on to your opinion, nothing wrong in that...But understand one thing a man from 1919 might be stronger than a man of 2011 of comparable size and structure...Just because Wlad is ripped, doesn't mean he is stronger...

You wont find me arguing a case for all big heavies of the past, but Willard was an exception...A freak of nature nature may be.

[New England]

"hw today suck, but they are larger than in the past, and have been getting larger consistently since willards day. that's fact and not opinion, brother"

One of the reasons they suck is that they are so big all of them. Throughout history there were big men, big heavies, but they were generally hammered...today they rule the roost..no wonder they suck...

Yea you can hold on to your opinion, nothing wrong in that...But understand one thing a man from 1919 might be stronger than a man of 2011 of comparable size and structure...Just because Wlad is ripped, doesn't mean he is stronger...

You wont find me arguing a case for all big heavies of the past, but Willard was an exception...A freak of nature nature may be.

the reason they suck is because everybody with an ounce of talent is finding his way to a sport where he can get paid without getting hit in the face
especially in america.


can you even imagine the buzz in the boxing world if lebron james was a prospect coming up at HW? a 6'9" 265 lb monster with an 86 inch reach who can outrun anybody in the NBA from one end of the court to the other?
i wouldn't even think he was real, bro
would you?


being bigger is an advantage in a boxing match, i'm sure you will agree. today's lack of a talent and sound boxing in the division isn't an argument against that in my eyes.

a bigger supremely talented and skilled fighter should be favored against a smaller supremely talented and skilled fighter. it's the general rule, and its obviously been broken and will be again, but it does hold water

it doesn't mean that it will win you a fight, but it's an advantage
it takes more work to win rounds or stop a man if you are smaller.
larger opponents are generally harder to hurt
punch harder
making defeating them more difficult in a sport based on the effectiveness of your punches.


both klitschkos would be playing linebacker or tight end somewhere if they were born in the united states. maybe wladimir would be a shooting guard.


boxing wouldn't even cross their minds, in all likelihood.
there's an outside chance their talents might find their way to boxing, certainly, if they had a foot in the door with family history, or a gym next door to their home.


but in all likelihood they would have been steered into scholastic athletics and entered into the major american sports on the collegiate level for a full scholarship


long winded maybe, but my point is that the division doesn suck because the men are big
the division sucks because the men are not talented, and that has nothing to do with their bigness


and thank you for apologizing, but you never offended me, bro
we're here to talk boxing
this sport is inherently subjective

[Greatest1942]

the reason they suck is because everybody with an ounce of talent is finding his way to a sport where he can get paid without getting hit in the face
especially in america.


can you even imagine the buzz in the boxing world if lebron james was a prospect coming up at HW? a 6'9" 265 lb monster with an 86 inch reach who can outrun anybody in the NBA from one end of the court to the other?
i wouldn't even think he was real, bro
would you?


both klitschkos would be playing linebacker or tight end somewhere if they were born in the united states. maybe wladimir would be a shooting guard.


boxing wouldn't even cross their minds, in all likelihood.
there's an outside chance their talents might find their way to boxing, certainly, if they had a foot in the door with family history, or a gym next door to their home.


but in all likelihood they would have been steered into scholastic athletics and entered into the major american sports on the collegiate level for a full scholarship



and thank you for apologizing, but you never offended me, bro
we're here to talk boxing
this sport is inherently subjective

I agree mostly...