Top 10 Heavies from best to worst

[The Iron Man]

I know Jefferies was not at his peak when fighting Johnson, but that is really the only credible fighter he fought. As you stated beating Fitzsimmons isint such a massive achievment that makes you one of the best heavies ever.

[StarshipTrooper]

I know Jefferies was not at his peak when fighting Johnson, but that is really the only credible fighter he fought. As you stated beating Fitzsimmons isint such a massive achievment that makes you one of the best heavies ever.

Well, I think that brings us right back to the fact that he simply didn't have enough fights in his career to give him a fair evaluation. That few fights he'd have to have taken on a world beater everytime out for him to really display enough of his abilities to judge. As it was, the best fighters he fought were past it (Fitzsimmons, Corbett) or HE was past it when they fought (Johnson). There simply isn't enough there.

Poet

[The Iron Man]

Yeh totally agree!

Going back a while. It doesnt look like Hawkins is comming back, you rekon we should try the consensus again?

[marciano1952]

Hank Griffin
Jim Corbett
Bob Fitz Who went on to win the Light heavy and had the padding removed from his gloves prier to the fight
Joe Choyskie who he Drew with in his 4 fight while Choynski was a vet of the sport
Tom Sharky
Peter Jackson

Thing is he fought close to the top from his pro debut up until he retired

the Johnson Bout was the one you cant use he was off 6 years befor that fight


Clumbsy hmm he out boxed Corbett in the secound fight who ever did that

[LondonRingRules]

I disagree with Tracy Collins aswell then. How could someone with a total of 21 fights!. The best opponent he came up against was Jack Johnson and he lost convincingly. Fitzsimmons was a good fighter but not at his best at the time of their fight and he was beaten by alot of "nobody" fighters.

** And you beaten well by yourself by default.

Jeffries knocked out Griffen in just his 2nd pro fight. Johnson was 0-1-2 against Griffin. Jeffries drew against Choynski in just his 6th pro fight. Johnson was KOed by Choynski. Mexican Pete Everett was KOed by Jeffries in the 3rd rd. Pete took Johnson the 20 rd distance.

Jeffries KOed Fitz twice before Johnson ever got to Fitz as a 40 something old man. Langford took out an ad in the papers saying he would fight anyone but Jeffries. Johnson never gave Langford his rematch and took short money to fight journeymen in France rather than risk Langford.


Finally, Jeffries fought the highest % of career HOF bouts in boxing history, almost 50% of his bouts against HOFers and he KOed most of them.

You can disagree all you want, rubbish the Jeffries style, but the facts are Jeffries reign supreme in spite of limited experience. Johnson caught him after 6 yrs of retirement and 100lbs of baggage. Without Jeffries, Johnson has a weak career since he ducked the premier heavies during his championship reign, mostly fighting white journeymen and middleweight types.

Cheerio ol' chap....

[-CANE-]

Yeh totally agree!

Going back a while. It doesnt look like Hawkins is comming back, you rekon we should try the consensus again?

I emailed Hawkins after christmas and he said he was busy but was looking to come back on here. I've since emailed him twice since, but with no reply. Hope he's o.k.


Regarding Jeffries it is very difficult for any of us to rate these fighters from that era, we simply haven't seen enough of them and can only base our opinions on the little glimpses we have seen and from what others have written about them and by comparing common opponents they shared.

Saying that I'm impressed by Jeffries on what I know, and he was a fine speciman of man, tough as they come and an underated boxer.

I personally wouldn't have him that high, but I've got no problem with him being in someones top10. More deserving IMO than say Wladimir Klitchko.

[The Iron Man]

** And you beaten well by yourself by default.

Jeffries knocked out Griffen in just his 2nd pro fight. Johnson was 0-1-2 against Griffin. Jeffries drew against Choynski in just his 6th pro fight. Johnson was KOed by Choynski. Mexican Pete Everett was KOed by Jeffries in the 3rd rd. Pete took Johnson the 20 rd distance.

Jeffries KOed Fitz twice before Johnson ever got to Fitz as a 40 something old man. Langford took out an ad in the papers saying he would fight anyone but Jeffries. Johnson never gave Langford his rematch and took short money to fight journeymen in France rather than risk Langford.


Finally, Jeffries fought the highest % of career HOF bouts in boxing history, almost 50% of his bouts against HOFers and he KOed most of them.

You can disagree all you want, rubbish the Jeffries style, but the facts are Jeffries reign supreme in spite of limited experience. Johnson caught him after 6 yrs of retirement and 100lbs of baggage. Without Jeffries, Johnson has a weak career since he ducked the premier heavies during his championship reign, mostly fighting white journeymen and middleweight types.

Cheerio ol' chap....

Those statiostics are usless with someone who had only 21 fights it really means nothing. I didnt rubbish the Jeffries style, althought saying that it was no where near as good as the boxers i have in my top 10. Jefferies stated after the Johnson fight that even in his prime he wouldnt of won. None of his victorys really stand out, he was a good boxer but didnt show enough to be placed in the top 10.

[marciano1952]

Those statiostics are usless with someone who had only 21 fights it really means nothing. I didnt rubbish the Jeffries style, althought saying that it was no where near as good as the boxers i have in my top 10. Jefferies stated after the Johnson fight that even in his prime he wouldnt of won. None of his victorys really stand out, he was a good boxer but didnt show enough to be placed in the top 10.

what fighters have ever said that they wold have beaten someoe they lost to after there prime if they were in there prime as well I tik Louis said the same hing about Marciano Its ust a way o showing respect to the other guy

[StarshipTrooper]

Hank Griffin
Jim Corbett
Bob Fitz Who went on to win the Light heavy and had the padding removed from his gloves prier to the fight
Joe Choyskie who he Drew with in his 4 fight while Choynski was a vet of the sport
Tom Sharky
Peter Jackson

Thing is he fought close to the top from his pro debut up until he retired

the Johnson Bout was the one you cant use he was off 6 years befor that fight


Clumbsy hmm he out boxed Corbett in the secound fight who ever did that

Outboxed Corbett? I don't think so. Beat Corbett yes, out boxed him no. Every account I've read of both Jeffries - Corbett fights has Corbett easily outboxing Jeffries only to be worn down and stopped late. Face it: The was nothing fancy or subtle about Jeffries. Laud his toughness, his strength, his power, his conditioning, and his chin and you'll get no argument from me: He was superlative in all those areas. Just don't try and make him into something he was not.

Poet

[marciano1952]

Outboxed Corbett? I don't think so. Beat Corbett yes, out boxed him no. Every account I've read of both Jeffries - Corbett fights has Corbett easily outboxing Jeffries only to be worn down and stopped late. Face it: The was nothing fancy or subtle about Jeffries. Laud his toughness, his strength, his power, his conditioning, and his chin and you'll get no argument from me: He was superlative in all those areas. Just don't try and make him into something he was not.

Poet

Im not I have read in quite a few articals and quite a few books that he was outboxing and toyuing with Corbett in there secound fight beofr KOing him in the 10th