Is Dempsey Overrated? Is his ATG status questionable

[HOUDINI563]

Johnson had the boxing skill to beat men like Dempsey and Marciano. He was used to fighting sluggers that came to him.

[Joe Beamish]

Johnson had the boxing skill to beat men like Dempsey and Marciano. He was used to fighting sluggers that came to him.

Agreed. Although Marciano brought some unique things that may have vexed Johnson some. Johnson would have evaded Dempsey’s best shots.

[HOUDINI563]

Well yes and no. Dempsey was far quicker, precise, short puncher, better defense and more highly skilled vs Marciano. Johnson would beat Rocky easier as he more closely resembled those he did face in his prime. Marciano’s endurance may have benefited him in a long bout.

[Joe Beamish]

Well yes and no. Dempsey was far quicker, precise, short puncher, better defense and more highly skilled vs Marciano. Johnson would beat Rocky easier as he more closely resembled those he did face in his prime. Marciano’s endurance may have benefited him in a long bout.

Weren't both known to throw highly effective short punches?? Didn't Marciano destroy Walcott in the first fight with a 6-inch blow?

Do people just make this crap up?

I still wonder, who did Dempsey beat? Anybody good?? Hell no. All he did was lose to Tunney and beat up some blasé, mediocre white boys.

[HOUDINI563]

Marciano did throw occasional short blows but just as many if not more came from left or right field. Dempsey was more akin to a hwt Roberto Duran. Brutal fast puncher with excellent fighting skills. Arcel who watched Dempsey live from ringside stated that Duran as a light weight was the closest thing to Dempsey he had ever seen. Valuable comment when trying to visualize prime Dempsey in living color.

[Joe Beamish]

Several people -- Arcel, Tunney -- said some over-the-moon things about Dempsey. I get the parallel to Duran, although the competition they fought was on astronomically different levels. Duran jumped over a weight class to defeat Sugar Ray Freaking Leonard. Dempsey did what? Who did Jack Dempsey beat? Bunch of mediocre white boys. Frankly.

And I've never seen any clips of Dempsey doing any Roberto Duran type stuff, like feinting people into the next century. Duran was busy using a whole kit bag full of tricks and maneuvers that suckered bigger, stronger men; I can't see Dempsey, a smallish HW, pulling off anything like that.

Dempsey was all-brawl, and if he couldn't handle Tunney, he couldn't handle the guys Marciano defeated. Marciano was weird and awkward, very hard to solve, throwing punches from everywhere at all times from all angles. Even Ali found him extremely difficult when filming that silly computer fight thing. Ali would have murdered Dempsey.

Nope. Don't see it. Ya gotta beat somebody better than the pile of glop Dempsey defeated, to be great.

[HOUDINI563]

Well. You need to look at Dempsey much closer. There are sequences with Tunney where he slips 7-8 consecutive blows. His technical capabilities far exceed Marciano. Not close.

Arcel Tunney and Fleischers comments regarding Dempsey should not be discounted. I’ve found those that do are either very ignorant of the sport or have an agenda. You have boxing’s great ever trainer, boxing’s greatest writer/historian and hwt boxing’s greatest technical boxer all giving Dempsey high praise. Langford, boxing’s ARG p4p stated Dempsey was the “greatest hwt he had ever seen”. Stillman rated Dempsey the best in addition.

Dempsey’s destruction of Fulton and Sharkey are possibly the two greatest wins by any hwt champion up to that time. And no Dempsey did not hit Sharkey in the balls to end the fight.

[Bundana]

So those who don't feel the same way about Dempsey as Arcel or Tunney, are either ignorant or have an agenda?

Is it not possible, that a knowledgeable, unbiased person could simply have a contradicting opinion?

[ShoulderRoll]

Marciano started late in boxing. And while Charlie Goldman did wonders molding him into a champion the Rock was crude compared to Dempsey, who turned brawling into a well thought out science with his drop steps and shoulder whirls and shovel hooks and hierarchy of defense.

They are not in the same league. And to most of the experts who witnessed both of their careers there was never any doubt about it.

[HOUDINI563]

Yes. Dempsey’s greatness was already determined by those experts of his time who watched him live from ringside. Who are you to try to change expert opinion 100 years later? Ignorant or you have an agenda.