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View Poll Results: Who will win the title?
Lakers 7 23.33%
Clippers 15 50.00%
Bucks 0 0%
76ers 3 10.00%
Rockets 3 10.00%
Pelicans 0 0%
Blazers 0 0%
Nuggets 0 0%
Warriors 2 6.67%
Other 0 0%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-30-2020, 01:13 PM #691
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So june 31?



That is good. Can't wait.
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:18 PM #692
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So much nonsense in this post. Of course defenses were better back then in part because as you said it was easier to play defense. Today's NBA has largely become a joke. Foul calls are ridiculous. Look at James Harden and all his flopping and he lives at the free throw line. Now you can't even touch players on the perimeter and everyone wants to shoot 3s that's why scoring is up drastically. You bring up old slow players as if they only existed in the past. Jordan, Iverson, Penny, Hill, Pippen, Kemp, Malone etc. were hardly slow. Look at how unathletic players like Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic dominate in today's league. The defense now is laughable. The only time when NBA teams even try to play consistent defense now is in the playoffs.

Btw, Giannis wouldn't be as effective back then because he would actually have to play in the halfcourt. A lot of Giannis' points come in transition. As great as Giannis is he still has some holes in his game, his handles are average at best and he has no mid range game to speak of. He got exposed in the playoffs last year. Also, it was a hell of a lot tougher to score in the paint back the. The 90s had the best era of centers ever-Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Mutombo, etc
Slow footed players cant survive in today's game and have been largely phased out of the league.

Your argument is not logical.

Tell me what makes for better basketball.

Old, fat and slow players doing an easy job or young, fit and fast players doing a difficult job.

You think these guys arent playing defense but in reality you arent seeing how difficult the job is.

Bro, Barkley is 6'5 and scored primarily inside. Wilkins scored primarily inside. Same for Worthy... Giannis is better then all these guys.
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Old 05-30-2020, 07:57 PM #693
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Originally Posted by AllBoxingAD View Post
Slow footed players cant survive in today's game and have been largely phased out of the league.

Your argument is not logical.

Tell me what makes for better basketball.

Old, fat and slow players doing an easy job or young, fit and fast players doing a difficult job.

You think these guys arent playing defense but in reality you arent seeing how difficult the job is.

Bro, Barkley is 6'5 and scored primarily inside. Wilkins scored primarily inside. Same for Worthy... Giannis is better then all these guys.
Do you even watch basketball??? Do you know how damn "slow footed" Nikola Jokic is? Jokic dominates and is extremely slow and unathletic by typical NBA standards. Jokic is also overweight. Luka also isn't very athletic and is nowhere near fast. Hell Luka said scoring in the NBA is easier than the league he played in when he was in Europe.

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Old 05-30-2020, 09:30 PM #694
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Do you even watch basketball??? Do you know how damn "slow footed" Nikola Jokic is? Jokic dominates and is extremely slow and unathletic by typical NBA standards. Jokic is also overweight. Luka also isn't very athletic and is nowhere near fast. Hell Luka said scoring in the NBA is easier than the league he played in when he was in Europe.

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You didnt answer my question.

Dont dodge it.

Which one makes for better basketball?

FYI Jokic is a center. They are obviously the slowest on the floor. He isnt anything close to Oliver Miller or Ostertag though.

Luka is a bad defender and super young but he isnt slow footed.
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Old 05-30-2020, 10:26 PM #695
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You didnt answer my question.

Dont dodge it.

Which one makes for better basketball?

FYI Jokic is a center. They are obviously the slowest on the floor. He isnt anything close to Oliver Miller or Ostertag though.

Luka is a bad defender and super young but he isnt slow footed.
You said "slow footed" players can't survive today's NBA. One of the best players in the league today (Jokic) is very slow. How does that work? Your question makes no sense. It's like you're insuating that the league was full of slow fat players in the previous era. All I can do is laugh at people who try to diminish 90s basketball like it was filled with bums. That era produced some of the greatest players ever.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:03 AM #696
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You said "slow footed" players can't survive today's NBA. One of the best players in the league today (Jokic) is very slow. How does that work? Your question makes no sense. It's like you're insuating that the league was full of slow fat players in the previous era. All I can do is laugh at people who try to diminish 90s basketball like it was filled with bums. That era produced some of the greatest players ever.
Anything to dodge answering the question right?

Let me break it down further for you.

Theres always gonna be about 30 elite players in the league. Generally these guys would be elite in any era. But thats 30 out of 450. Im talking about the rest of the league. Compared to today, the 90s had tons of skill-less players who got minutes because they were big and tough. Their size allowed them to be a presence in the paint but they didnt offer much else. Again its also a big part of why there was a dead ball era. Those "classic" Knicks vs Heat series are a prime example of that. In todays game, guys have to be more skillful, more athletic and in better shape to get minutes.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:13 PM #697
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Anything to dodge answering the question right?

Let me break it down further for you.

Theres always gonna be about 30 elite players in the league. Generally these guys would be elite in any era. But thats 30 out of 450. Im talking about the rest of the league. Compared to today, the 90s had tons of skill-less players who got minutes because they were big and tough. Their size allowed them to be a presence in the paint but they didnt offer much else. Again its also a big part of why there was a dead ball era. Those "classic" Knicks vs Heat series are a prime example of that. In todays game, guys have to be more skillful, more athletic and in better shape to get minutes.
I'm convinced you have no clue what you're talking about. Lol at "more skillful" players today. Players now have much more room and freedom to operate because the NBA changed the rules to allow more relaxed defense. Even with that today's players demonstrate less "skill" in multiple areas. For example, a post game is a lost art (skill) that today's players lack. How many guys in the league now are comfortable with playing with their back to the basket? Hell even Gary Payton had a pretty good post game as a damn PG in the 90s. You got a guy like Embiid who likes to hang out on the perimeter and foolishly shoot 3s. That's not more skill, it's just dumb basketball. There isn't a big today with half of Hakeem Olajuwon's skill level. Today's bigs can't play with their back to the basket for ****.

Another example of a missing "skill" today is the mid range jump shot. Guys like Jordan, Grant Hill, Allan Houston, etc were damn good mid range jump shooters. The game today is all 3s or driving to the hoop because the lane is wide open. I don't see more "skill" in today's league. I just see a softer league with a focus on 3 point shooting and a faster pace. There are a ton of players in the league today who offer 1 thing like shooting or defense that's it. Players now are probably more athletic but "skilled" hell no.

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Old 05-31-2020, 08:45 PM #698
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I'm convinced you have no clue what you're talking about. Lol at "more skillful" players today. Players now have much more room and freedom to operate because the NBA changed the rules to allow more relaxed defense. Even with that today's players demonstrate less "skill" in multiple areas. For example, a post game is a lost art (skill) that today's players lack. How many guys in the league now are comfortable with playing with their back to the basket? Hell even Gary Payton had a pretty good post game as a damn PG in the 90s. You got a guy like Embiid who likes to hang out on the perimeter and foolishly shoot 3s. That's not more skill, it's just dumb basketball. There isn't a big today with half of Hakeem Olajuwon's skill level. Today's bigs can't play with their back to the basket for ****.

Another example of a missing "skill" today is the mid range jump shot. Guys like Jordan, Grant Hill, Allan Houston, etc were damn good mid range jump shooters. The game today is all 3s or driving to the hoop because the lane is wide open. I don't see more "skill" in today's league. I just see a softer league with a focus on 3 point shooting and a faster pace. There are a ton of players in the league today who offer 1 thing like shooting or defense that's it. Players now are probably more athletic but "skilled" hell no.
Hell yes, they are more skilled. I think the problem here is that you dont understand why the league changed.

Before I go on, let me ask you, what caused the dead ball era in the NBA and why did they shorten the 3pt line?

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Old 06-01-2020, 08:13 PM #699
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Hell yes, they are more skilled. I think the problem here is that you dont understand why the league changed.

Before I go on, let me ask you, what caused the dead ball era in the NBA and why did they shorten the 3pt line?
Dead ball era? The game has evolved and became MUCH easier to play. The league wanted higher scoring games and that's why the rules changed. The rule changes make the players look more skilled but they're not. If you apply today's rules and style of play to the 90s you'd essentially have the same results. Even if you go back to about 2000-2012 or so the scoring then wasn't what it is now because of the rules and the way the game is played. Give me some examples of how players today are more skilled?
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Old 06-02-2020, 11:23 AM #700
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Dead ball era? The game has evolved and became MUCH easier to play. The league wanted higher scoring games and that's why the rules changed. The rule changes make the players look more skilled but they're not. If you apply today's rules and style of play to the 90s you'd essentially have the same results. Even if you go back to about 2000-2012 or so the scoring then wasn't what it is now because of the rules and the way the game is played. Give me some examples of how players today are more skilled?
Yes, the dead ball era. Were you not aware that there was a dead ball era during that period of time? And that this era is what led to a changing of the rules? At least tell me you knew that they shortened the 3pt line to help these guys out. Do you remember all the iso-ball being played back then?

You are looking at things upside down. The game was easier to play back then and here's why.

The low scoring was due to teams being offensively challenged. All they knew was dumping the ball down low or swinging it to the wing for an iso. Every single time the defense knew what was coming, and since the ball wasnt moving much, it was easy for the defense. The insistance on trying to score inside made it so guys who were old but big still had value, even though they couldnt move, couldnt jump and couldnt score. Also, those guys got away with stopping the faster, more skillful players from exposing them by using hand checking. All those things made playing defense EASIER back then.

They stopped hand checking to free up skillful players and to get rid of the "only here cause im big" players. With the skillful, athletic players being free, and without the crutch of hand checking available, it is now HARDER to defend.

The league also tried to help with shortening the 3pt line to entice these guys to use more of the court instead of just trying to score from the low post. It would create more space down low and it would encourage more outside shots. But at the time the players didnt have the shooting skills to take full advantage of it.

Today teams use the entire court to score, because of that teams switch everything on defense. You cant just go under the screen everytime, thinking your guy wont shoot the 3. Those switches mean that everyone ends up defending everyone. Thats how Gober or Love end up guarding Steph at the top of the key. Guys have to be good enough to be able to move more and more. Even the bigs.

All those things add up to the game being harder on the defensive end.

As for your skills question, i am also sad that bigs dont have a back to the basket game anymore. But we are seeing the most skilled perimeter players ever.

Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Paul George & Kawhi Leonard are the standard. They are basically Pippen mixed with MJ. They guard 1 through 5, they handle, they create their own shot, they shoot mid-range and long range, they pass... Theres really nothing they cant do.

Today's game has more players like this then ever.
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