Huh?

[billeau2]

No, because most of the countries, especially Eastern Euro, were blocked off from fighting elsewhere or leaving. Plus the US had zero interest in white Eastern Euro fighters until GGG came along. Most Eastern Euros went pro in Germany or other countries.

I would say that the real "problem" is the tendency for us to think through dualistic and linear means: as though there is in some corner "a reason" that will when put fourth take a black and white issue and address it with authority and knowledge.

There are in fact many reasons why things are changing in the landscape of the fight game. Lets look at two competing trends: We have more special athletes deciding to go into other sports because of pay , prestige and self betterment, we ALSO concurrently have more countries that have the facilities to produce world class fighters. So this issue has to be looked at carefully to say the least.

As far as fundamentals, the amateur game is more widespread and what most fighters are exposed to. This has made an impact on the professional ranks as we see a very consistent style that does seem to be limited as compared to the past when all fighters seemed to have to be proficient in more skill sets. On the other hand, this amateur style has been developed and we have seen great fighters like the Cubans and Russians, among others who have been very succesful using it in the pro ranks. Again these are both trends it would seem.

How about all the boxing agencies? have they made more champions, or watered down the champions we have? Seldom do we have an uncontested champ that is recognized by all agencies as such... this is a problem IMO because it suggests that the best are not fighting the best.

These are just some of the trends that cause changes in the boxing landscape. these are complex issues imo.

[Anthony342]

That and four dollars gets you a latte at Starbucks.

And 5 dollars will get you a cappuccino.

[StarshipTrooper]

And 5 dollars will get you a cappuccino.

Indeed......

[jaded]

And 5 dollars will get you a cappuccino.

This is why a make my own coffee at home.

[The Old LefHook]

I would say that the real "problem" is the tendency for us to think through dualistic and linear means: as though there is in some corner "a reason" that will when put fourth take a black and white issue and address it with authority and knowledge.

There are in fact many reasons why things are changing in the landscape of the fight game. Lets look at two competing trends: We have more special athletes deciding to go into other sports because of pay , prestige and self betterment, we ALSO concurrently have more countries that have the facilities to produce world class fighters. So this issue has to be looked at carefully to say the least.

As far as fundamentals, the amateur game is more widespread and what most fighters are exposed to. This has made an impact on the professional ranks as we see a very consistent style that does seem to be limited as compared to the past when all fighters seemed to have to be proficient in more skill sets. On the other hand, this amateur style has been developed and we have seen great fighters like the Cubans and Russians, among others who have been very succesful using it in the pro ranks. Again these are both trends it would seem.

How about all the boxing agencies? have they made more champions, or watered down the champions we have? Seldom do we have an uncontested champ that is recognized by all agencies as such... this is a problem IMO because it suggests that the best are not fighting the best.

These are just some of the trends that cause changes in the boxing landscape. these are complex issues imo.

Good post, Bill. Notice what I reddened. Prestige is an important word there. Ball players get to be on the big stage weekly, if not more. Poor boxers wait months to strut their stuff in the big hall. Then it's back to semi obscurity for another six months.

By increasing the number of boxing organizations and decreasing the length of fights, boxing can compete with other sports for bling and flash and recognition.

Boxing, in fact most professional sports, are dominated by black uns' these days. The black man is a showoff, always has been, pink cadillacs (Robinson before Elvis) and all.

Go all the way back to the amateur format then. Let the boys have a three rounder every few weeks. Organize large box off tournaments continually so fans can identify with the participants. The couple of programs that were already tried had the right idea, but did not have top talent to attract an audience. Instead, the producers try to compensate with the reality angle, which only marginally interests me. I do not much care about seeing a champion eat breakfast with his family.

Under the new philosophy, the more organizations, the merrier. An organization can come from nowhere to dominate a division or more in the tourneys.

If such a tourney had a talent the likes of young Roy Jones to promote their tourney with, half the world would be watching when it was time.

I never thought I'd say it, but I might as well. I have always defended and glorified 15 round fights. But I guess that is passe. Let's get on with the new amateur era, which Ray has correctly identified for us. Let's go ahead and get boxing converted.

I wonder if Dana white has the imagination to experiment with any new forms once he gets involved in the game as a promoter?

What does anyone think about that?

I doubt he has the brains himself, but some of his advisors might, if he still takes them seriously. He also has bosses likely to be smarter than himself. He is not the kingpin in his organization.

On the other hand, I am sure his opinion goes a long way with his superiors back at the main office.

He could be the man that gets it converted. I do not believe anything else will work to permanently fix boxing.

[billeau2]

This is why a make my own coffee at home.

A f uckin men!!! People are crazy!! For the price of a coffee at starbucks I can go buy a great loaf of bread, even a fine artesianal cheese really...

[billeau2]

Good post, Bill. Notice what I reddened. Prestige is an important word there. Ball players get to be on the big stage weekly, if not more. Poor boxers wait months to strut their stuff in the big hall. Then it's back to semi obscurity for another six months.

By increasing the number of boxing organizations and decreasing the length of fights, boxing can compete with other sports for bling and flash and recognition.

Boxing, in fact most professional sports, are dominated by black uns' these days. The black man is a showoff, always has been, pink cadillacs (Robinson before Elvis) and all.

Go all the way back to the amateur format then. Let the boys have a three rounder every few weeks. Organize large box off tournaments continually so fans can identify with the participants. The couple of programs that were already tried had the right idea, but did not have top talent to attract an audience. Instead, the producers try to compensate with the reality angle, which only marginally interests me. I do not much care about seeing a champion eat breakfast with his family.

Under the new philosophy, the more organizations, the merrier. An organization can come from nowhere to dominate a division or more in the tourneys.

If such a tourney had a talent the likes of young Roy Jones to promote their tourney with, half the world would be watching when it was time.

I never thought I'd say it, but I might as well. I have always defended and glorified 15 round fights. But I guess that is passe. Let's get on with the new amateur era, which Ray has correctly identified for us. Let's go ahead and get boxing converted.

I wonder if Dana white has the imagination to experiment with any new forms once he gets involved in the game as a promoter?

What does anyone think about that?

I doubt he has the brains himself, but some of his advisors might, if he still takes them seriously. He also has bosses likely to be smarter than himself. He is not the kingpin in his organization.

On the other hand, I am sure his opinion goes a long way with his superiors back at the main office.

He could be the man that gets it converted. I do not believe anything else will work to permanently fix boxing.

I cannot abide by anything less than a 15 round fight for championships. As a matter of fact imo one of the reasons we are seeing an ammy like style of glorified tag, at times is that the puncher can be avoided so easily. The puncher needs those 3 rounds at the end... Consider the feat of lining up a punch, and how easy it is to avoid a punch. There was never any reason to believe that I could see that less rounds made for a safer fight.

As far as your comment on black uns, I am an honest injun and not given to fits of moral indignation. All I would say is if you want to look at two of the biggest a-holes in the way you describe them, one of them would be Floyd and the other would be McGregor...perhaps the black irish? And many people feel that Tyson Fury, aye the gypsy king imself! also has a touch of the showoff in him as well. I don't attribute this to blackness, perhaps to social expectations....perhaps. But lets remember that while Robinson had his pink Cadillac, Sonny Liston would listen to one man absolutely, and that was the Catholic Priest who brought him along in prison, then we had the long line of Black men, the Brown Bomber, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, etc who were for God and country.

Yes prestige, salary and... a day when every boxer can have his own alphabet group to declare him a champ! lefty thats an excellent point about the schedule of a boxer and prestige!

[GhostofDempsey]

Quality over quantity I suppose. Look at Wilder, guy has 39 fights and hasn't fought anyone nearly as good as half of Loma's opponents. Same can be said for guys who like Crawford who are ranked very high on the P4P list. Crawford is a great fighter but if we judge P4P on resume alone, his is lacking. P4P also takes into consideration how a fighter would perform if he could take his skill set with him through various weight classes. Imagine if Loma was a HW or CW with that sort of speed, reflexes and ability. He'd be untouchable.

[The Old LefHook]

Quality over quantity I suppose. Look at Wilder, guy has 39 fights and hasn't fought anyone nearly as good as half of Loma's opponents. Same can be said for guys who like Crawford who are ranked very high on the P4P list. Crawford is a great fighter but if we judge P4P on resume alone, his is lacking. P4P also takes into consideration how a fighter would perform if he could take his skill set with him through various weight classes. Imagine if Loma was a HW or CW with that sort of speed, reflexes and ability. He'd be untouchable.

He would be faster than his heavyweight opponents but not as fast as his 130 lbs. self. I doubt if he would be any faster as a heavyweight than Clay was.

By the same token, if Clay were to fight as a 130 pounder in mythical contests, he would pick up speed, not remain the same.

[GhostofDempsey]

He would be faster than his heavyweight opponents but not as fast as his 130 lbs. self. I doubt if he would be any faster as a heavyweight than Clay was.

Even if he was as fast as Ali, that would be enough to wipe out today's HW division. Imagine a 6'7" Loma/Ali rampaging through the division.