Why is sam langford so highly rated as an atg

[JAB5239]

he also said something to the effect of: "that ball of fire has a shot against anybody." (from memory, can someone find the real quote?)

although from what i gather johnson was prone to claiming one thing then asserting another. either way, the fact remains sam gave him one of his toughest fights.

I thought the quote was "That little smoke has a shot against anybody." But my memory is hazy so I may be wrong too. Johnson also pulled a pistol on Langford when they ran into each other in a tavern and Langford was pressuring him for a rematch. I don't know if Sam would have won, but this was a clear duck by Johnson who was offered big money to fight Langford both in France and Australia.

[Mr. Mark]

He is highly thought of. Please expand on his virtues.

Jack Dempsey once said that Langford, despite his size, is someone he would never have contended with.

That should give you somewhat of an idea of what his virtues were, especially coming from a man who was considered The Greatest pugilist during their time.

[realheavyhands]

Jack Johnson called sam " the toughest son of a bich god ever created"

[Kid Achilles]

Sam Langford is one of the most highly respected fighters in history. If he had been born white and was given the opportunities available to white fighters in his era, he'd probably be hailed today as being close to as great as Robinson P4P. As it stands, he kind of already is considered to be so by some.

[greynotsoold]

Jack Dempsey once said that Langford, despite his size, is someone he would never have contended with.

That should give you somewhat of an idea of what his virtues were, especially coming from a man who was considered The Greatest pugilist during their time.

Actually, when Dempsey was offered a fight with Langford he turned it down because he did not feel he was experienced enough at that time to fight such an accomplished fighter. This was during Dempsey's first trip to New York, when he was very young, and Langford was 36

[Kid Achilles]

Actually, when Dempsey was offered a fight with Langford he turned it down because he did not feel he was experienced enough at that time to fight such an accomplished fighter. This was during Dempsey's first trip to New York, when he was very young, and Langford was 36

This was true. Dempsey weighed 160-170 at the time, had not filled out yet, and was inexperienced.

[Rspen46]

Good Solid Fighter!

I wish he could have fought Greb and Dempsey and Tunney, to settle this debate.
What title did he win, I can't remember?
He beat Gans, yes, but I discount that, Gans fought the day before that fight, he rode a train alnight to get to the fight, had what was thought to be the FLU, or something very close to it, had a high fever, imagine how you feel when you just have a little cold, he fought the day before, and had the flu, didnt get to rest and traveled alnight to get there.

Then by most accounts, outboxed, outclassed and won most of the early rounds, until he Physically just gave out and lost, so I will take that fight off the resume.
So he beat Wills, Wills beat him many more times than losing to him.
Jack Johnson beat him, some say he would not fight him again because he was afraid, LOL, yeah right, maybe he did not see the sense in it. we may never know for sure.
Yes he had to be an excellent fighter to have done what he did in so many different divisions, but why did he not win a title, why did he not stay in a division until given a title shot, some say because they were scared of him, again, LOL, Greb & Dempsey I'm sure were shaking in their boots.
Excellent career and good solid resume, but I think his ranking and how many think so much of him at HW is somewhat overrated.
I can't see him beating anyones top HW list of ATG's.
Maybe not even anyones top 15 and possilbly not their top 20.
If I could see some fights through some time machine, here are the fights I would start with for Langford, to start with.
Gans - at full health and strength and rested for the fight, he would win.
Walker
Greb
Dempsey
Tunney These fights would settle the question of his time period.
Now to send fighters in time to fight him.
Foreman - Shavers-Lyle-Morrison-Cooney-Quarry-Patterson-Holyfield-Marciano-Frazier-Norton-Liston-Tyson- that's at HW, other divisions
Duran-Hagler-Hearns-Cuevas-Pryor-Chavez-Napoles-Monzon-Qawi-Ayala Jr.
Hamsho-Frank the animal Fletcher-Arguello-Rosario-McCaullum-
Fight them at his best weight during his career that closely matches these guys, now some on my list are not ATG's like Hamsho and Lye and others but I would leave to have seen Langford travel n time to fight them, honestly I can'ts see Langford winning a very few if any of these fights, I say he might win 2, 3 maybe or maybe NONE, maybe at LW Rosario Ko's him, Arguello outboxes him, Pryor swarms him at JWW, Hearns flattens him at WW they way Cueavas and duran went down, but no way he moves up and beats the big guys, I think Lyle has a shot to beat him, a big strong HW, how does he handle Cooney's left, Morrisons left and size and speed, Shaver and Foremans size and power, I didnt even mention SRR and ALi and Louis, as they would devastate him.

[McGoorty]

sam was skilled and also a physical freak enjoying a very long reach for a man only 5'6 and I imagine he was very strong similar to dwight braxton(the fellow that holyfield claims gave him his toughest challange)

I think the only ATG who had a longer reach was Les Darcy whose reach was insanely freakish. I don't ever have a set ranking of ATG's because great is GREAT and then after that you are just being picky but I rate Sam a few rungs higher than Greb who I do have some questions about.

[McGoorty]

I wish he could have fought Greb and Dempsey and Tunney, to settle this debate.
What title did he win, I can't remember?
He beat Gans, yes, but I discount that, Gans fought the day before that fight, he rode a train alnight to get to the fight, had what was thought to be the FLU, or something very close to it, had a high fever, imagine how you feel when you just have a little cold, he fought the day before, and had the flu, didnt get to rest and traveled alnight to get there.

Then by most accounts, outboxed, outclassed and won most of the early rounds, until he Physically just gave out and lost, so I will take that fight off the resume.
So he beat Wills, Wills beat him many more times than losing to him.
Jack Johnson beat him, some say he would not fight him again because he was afraid, LOL, yeah right, maybe he did not see the sense in it. we may never know for sure.
Yes he had to be an excellent fighter to have done what he did in so many different divisions, but why did he not win a title, why did he not stay in a division until given a title shot, some say because they were scared of him, again, LOL, Greb & Dempsey I'm sure were shaking in their boots.
Excellent career and good solid resume, but I think his ranking and how many think so much of him at HW is somewhat overrated.
I can't see him beating anyones top HW list of ATG's.
Maybe not even anyones top 15 and possilbly not their top 20.
If I could see some fights through some time machine, here are the fights I would start with for Langford, to start with.
Gans - at full health and strength and rested for the fight, he would win.
Walker
Greb
Dempsey
Tunney These fights would settle the question of his time period.
Now to send fighters in time to fight him.
Foreman - Shavers-Lyle-Morrison-Cooney-Quarry-Patterson-Holyfield-Marciano-Frazier-Norton-Liston-Tyson- that's at HW, other divisions
Duran-Hagler-Hearns-Cuevas-Pryor-Chavez-Napoles-Monzon-Qawi-Ayala Jr.
Hamsho-Frank the animal Fletcher-Arguello-Rosario-McCaullum-
Fight them at his best weight during his career that closely matches these guys, now some on my list are not ATG's like Hamsho and Lye and others but I would leave to have seen Langford travel n time to fight them, honestly I can'ts see Langford winning a very few if any of these fights, I say he might win 2, 3 maybe or maybe NONE, maybe at LW Rosario Ko's him, Arguello outboxes him, Pryor swarms him at JWW, Hearns flattens him at WW they way Cueavas and duran went down, but no way he moves up and beats the big guys, I think Lyle has a shot to beat him, a big strong HW, how does he handle Cooney's left, Morrisons left and size and speed, Shaver and Foremans size and power, I didnt even mention SRR and ALi and Louis, as they would devastate him.

Oh this post is very long, you do raise legitimate questions like the Gans fight but you do realise Sam was no heavyweight right ? good big guys beat good small guys that is beyond disputing so I will ignore your heavyweight wish list and go on to realistic matchups. First of all, a 17 year old Les Darcy was not scared of Langford and wanted to fight him in Darcy's future so Harry Greb is never going to be afraid either, same for Dempsey.. fighters are never afraid of getting hurt, they only fear for their reputations. Having said this I see Langford DESTROYING Greb in say 1919. .................................. .................................................. ................................................ ............................ ....................

Duran-Hagler-Hearns-Cuevas-Pryor-Chavez-Napoles-Monzon-Qawi-Ayala Jr.
Hamsho-Frank the animal Fletcher-Arguello-Rosario-McCaullum-

.................................................. ................ .................................................. ........... ....... Some good matchups but mostly you are just being insulting, Sam would smash Arguello, Fletcher, Duran, Cuevas, Pryor, Chavez and McCallum, maybe Hearns stays in the fight for a while but his power although fantastic doesn't match up to Langford's and Sam simply shrugs off Tommy's blows but Tommy however had a poor chin and one punch is all Sam needs to end this fight, he beats all those guys with maybe the exception of Monzon but I suspect he knocks Monzon out. One guy I do see beating Sam is Gene Tunney, he had the strength and size and brilliance to beat anybody of Sam's height but I would rate Sam higher P4P. Langford is not perfect, and you have every right to analyse his career, we should never just automatically accept a reputation, we reserve the right to delve deep into a resume not take it at face value but I believe you are wrong about Sam.

[The Old LefHook]

The Johnson book quotes an erroneous weight for Langford of 138 lbs. against him in 1906. Sam actually weighed 156 for that fight.