Question on PEDs

[Dosumpthin]

The injury was a slight tear. After it was repaired standard therapy includes water therapy. Toradol use (which was approved) only goes to prove that Pac needed an anti inflammatory for the pre existing injury.

You have been given false information. Let me help you out

1. The injury was reported by the same doctor (Elattrache)as a 1 and a 1/2 FULL thickness tear.

2. Water therapy (wading in a pool) as part of a 6 month rehabilitation regimen is not the same as swimming in the sea less than 30 days.

3. Manny stated he didn't do any of the recommended rehabilitation regimen.

4. Margaret Goodman (head of VADA) considers TORADOL a type of PED.

5. The same doctor (Elattrache) as the one who told NSAC Manny can fight without the Toradol.


This isn't even a debate anymore. Just pull up the old threads and you will find all the links and quotes.



6. TORADOL was never approved. BOB ARUM lied about any approval. Just like when he claimed USADA gave Manny a TUE for Toradol. Another blatant lie.

[4truth]

You have been given false information. Let me help you out

1. The injury was reported by the same doctor (Elattrache)as a 1 and a 1/2 FULL thickness tear.

2. Water therapy (wading in a pool) as part of a 6 month rehabilitation regimen is not the same as swimming in the sea less than 30 days.

3. Manny stated he didn't do any of the recommended rehabilitation regimen.

4. Margaret Goodman (head of VADA) considers TORADOL a type of PED.

5. The same doctor (Elattrache) as the one who told NSAC Manny can fight without the Toradol.


This isn't even a debate anymore. Just pull up the old threads and you will find all the links and quotes.



6. TORADOL was never approved. BOB ARUM lied about any approval. Just like when he claimed USADA gave Manny a TUE for Toradol. Another blatant lie.

1) so what?
2) swimming in the sea is a very broad term. Far as I know Pac isn't a real swimmer.
3) see 1)
4) Yes, it's a PED but so is novacaine, strictly speaking.
5) He had to say that, as torodol, which, according to every source I'm aware of, was approved for training, was disapproved for the fight. Did you think that after torodol was disapproved he was going to say that Pac could not fight?
6) You are saying this and as I have no personal knowledge one way or another, can only say that if Pac used torodol for the fight this is news to me but my understanding is that torodol was approved for training not for the fight.

I'm not seeing anywhere here evidence that Pac had no injury, quite to the contrary.

[Dosumpthin]

1) so what?
2) swimming in the sea is a very broad term. Far as I know Pac isn't a real swimmer.
3) see 1)
4) Yes, it's a PED but so is novacaine, strictly speaking.
5) He had to say that, as torodol, which, according to every source I'm aware of, was approved for training, was disapproved for the fight. Did you think that after torodol was disapproved he was going to say that Pac could not fight?
6) You are saying this and as I have no personal knowledge one way or another, can only say that if Pac used torodol for the fight this is news to me but my understanding is that torodol was approved for training not for the fight.

I'm not seeing anywhere here evidence that Pac had no injury, quite to the contrary.

I can see there is no need to go into details with you. Slight tear/full thickness tear = all the same to you.
So let's not get technical.




But did you really ask "what was (the doctor) supposed to do"?

Is that your reasoning as to why he lied to NSAC?


SMH.


LIKE I SAID - MALPRACTICE LAWSUIT.

[4truth]

I can see there is no need to go into details with you. Slight tear/full thickness tear = all the same to you.
So let's not get technical.




But did you really ask "what was (the doctor) supposed to do"?

Is that your reasoning as to why he lied to NSAC?


SMH.

"He can fight without torodol" and you think that was a lie based on what? He had been training with torodol with the permission of the USADA. When they asked to use torodol for the fight (supposedly the request came too late), it was denied. So they asked the doctor "Can he fight?" The answer was yes, and he did though the injury was worsened during the fight. What is the big mystery here?? Torodol isn't going to strengthen or repair the injury, just make it less painful.

As far as the doctor describing the injury as both a slight tear/full thickness tear, without seeing those quotes from the doctor and knowing when and where they were made, that means very little to me.

I am really having a difficult time seeing what is is you think this all means anyway. Surely you are not suggesting there was no injury at all given that Pac was using torodol to control pain and inflammation of something. If it wasn't a torn rotator cuff, what was it then?

[Dosumpthin]

"He can fight without torodol" and you think that was a lie based on what?

Because he said that while holding a syringe full of toradol??


Lol.


And stop saying Toradol was "approved". Do some research. You're just repeating ONE of the many lies that were told by ARUM.

[4truth]

Because he said that while holding a syringe full of toradol??


Lol.


And stop saying Toradol was "approved". Do some research. You're just repeating ONE of the many lies that were told by ARUM.

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/upl...Tom-Hauser.pdf

Straight from the horse's mouth, USADA's rebuttal to Hauser's article. Go to the bottom of page 18. There is not much question about Pac's rotator cuff injury or about being denied toradol for the fight. What am I missing?

They deny a lot but not that.

[Dosumpthin]

https://www.usada.org/wp-content/upl...Tom-Hauser.pdf

Straight from the horse's mouth, USADA's rebuttal to Hauser's article. Go to the bottom of page 18. There is not much question about Pac's rotator cuff injury or about being denied toradol for the fight. What am I missing?

They deny a lot but not that.

First I'd like to say I appreciate you doing some research.......from your link -


"As Mr. Hauser knows, USADA was not involved with the NSAC's
decision to deny Mr. Pacquiao's request for an injection. As Toradol is
not prohibited under WADA rules, it was not necessary for Mr.
Pacquiao to apply to USADA for a TUE or otherwise advise USADA of
his intended use of the substance prior to the administration of the
medication."



In contrast if the substance was banned, the athlete would need apply for approval in the form of a TUE application.

That is the process for WADA signatories.


Which leads to this head scratching moment when Bob Arum LIED and claimed they had a TUE from USADA for Toradol.


Skip to 1:15:00 he starts talking about it May vs Pac and the injury. Listen closely.....

Here's the link:

http://theforwardpodcast.libsyn.com/bob-arum

WTF?

What Arum said was a bold face LIE. USADA and NSAC have both stated to have no prior knowledge of the injury. And we know USADA damn sure didn't give a TUE for it.

[Citizen Koba]

I know VADA has a list, but I've never heard of pretty much all of those big chemical whatever words.

My question is, beyond normal protein, what is allowed? Are most pre-workout type things allowed? Or are there plenty of pre-workouts that would have a banned chemical in them? Or would an outlet like bodybuilding.com have quite a few things for sale that would be banned substances?

And are many of the banned substances perfectly legal for someone to use if they aren't competing in an organization that bans it?

http://vada-testing.org/wp-content/u..._List_2018.pdf

Yes. Many of them are. You'd have to check substance by substance, but Clenbuterol and Meldonium (sold as MILDRONATE) are among them (certainly online anyway and will ship to almost anywhere) and there's many, many others. Besides which, if you ain't in competition, who's gonna be testing you? Who would actually give a damn what you put in your body?

If you're thinking of dosing yourself though, man, I'd advise caution... a lot of that **** can have long term side effects which you might not care about now, but you might regret years down the line.