DAZN or SHOWTIME PPV for Joshua v Wilder ?

[BIG GUNZ]

It's available in HD for free via streaming regardless of where it goes. I subscribe to DAZN since I'm fine with their business model and find it reasonable. I'm not paying for any single-fight PPV.

I wish PPV would go away already. It’s so incredibly outdated to charge so much for 1 show. Even someone as out of touch as Vince McMahon knew it was time to get rid of regular PPV & have the WWE Network.

[Manlikefemi]

How do you come up with this kind of conclusion? Are you drunk on dick?

DAZN = $20/month

PPV = $75-$100 for one event

AJ is 2nd biggest Boxing attraction, behind Canelo who also fights under DAZN banner

Showtime/HBO/FOX/PBC/CBS are not good for fans. 20$/month...and then cancel. What's so confusing about that?

Why would you WANT to pay more?

As i have said for the fans the preference would be for the fight to take place on DAZN in the US, because of the cheaper price compared to what it would cost on PPV. However the Boxing Buisness to fan’s needs....

The question is who will get the fight and what Buisness model will come out on top, DAZN’s flat fee or the SHO PPV Route.

Will Haymon realistically allow Wilder to go over to DAZN for the biggest fight a PBC Fighter is involved in and vice versa with Hearn.

[Manlikefemi]

Showtime made heavy investments in Wilder? How, by paying him a pittance his whole career?

Anyhow, Wilder can keep fighting bums off PPV on Showtime for low money (Unless Showtime want to keep losing tens of millions on him by giving him money way beyond what he generates) While AJ can keep fighting the best who are willing and picking up big pay cheques. It's fine by me. I don't even want the fight any more. I've had about as much as i can take from Wilder now. He's killed this fight for me. I just want him to **** off back to where he belongs so i don't have to hear his delusion any more. It's just sickening at this point.

I didn’t want to reply to you because you seem like one of thise ultra nationalistic english guys obsessed with Hearn/Joshua and DAZN.

Showtime have made heavy investments in Wilder. The commission fees are bogus. PBC Fighters get a topup on their pay packets. Showtime have cumulatively invested a lot in Wilder. And they would want a return with a Joshua fight.

Wilder made a lot of money from the Fury fight, only Joshua v Klitschko and Joshua v Parker generated more when compared with AJ fights. For a such a poor promoter, in a poor sport in the US, he’s doing okay.

The question is which is more likely, SHO PPV or DAZN for Joshua v Wilder ?

[Scipio2009]

This is a big issue. I don’t see a hope in hell Haymon allows Joshua v Wilder to take place on DAZN and authorising the biggest fight a PBC Fighter is involved in to take place on DAZN.

Joshua v Wilder could be the fight that ignites Subscriptions for DAZN and gives them mainstream coverage. I just don’t see why Wilder/Haymon would allow it.

Which is why i think sooner or later, both will demand the fight can only take place on SHO PPV. Showtime made investments both on Joshua (before he left) and Wilder. Showtime would not be happy with Haymon, this is why they are involved in the Boxing Buisness, to get these PPV type of fights.

It’s not as simple as both SHO and DAZN making the biggest offers. Two completely different buisness models, one’s a flat fee the other is PPV Numbers. Wilder says he wants 50/50 and wants to know how much Joshua is making, that can only happen through the fight taking place on PPV (as PPV involves public percentage splits and guaranteed fees in case the PPV Flops. So both fighters will know what eachother is projected to earn)
DAZN will surely keep the contracts with each fighter private.

Wilder’s management says they don’t want to leave any money on the table. PPV is the only way that can be prevented. Imagine if DAZN guarantees both 50M, and on PPV it could’ve done 2M Buys. That’s lost revenue for everyone not just the fighters.

DAZN got Hearn along to get the AJ v Wilder fight on DAZN as probably one of the biggest reasons why.
Showtime hasn’t made heavy investments in Wilder for no reason. I see a impediment arising...

For fans obviously being on DAZN would be the preference, but that’s not how the Boxing Buisness works, never has, never will

What does any of this have to do with Joshua though? DAZN didn't sign Anthony Joshua; they signed Matchroom Sport to deliver a certain number of shows.

DAZN signed Andrade, Farmer, Jesse Vargas, Canelo, Golovkin, and even Daniel Jacobs to formal deals, among others; Joshua and his management have yet to see a deal from DAZN worth signing, and Eddie Hearn is supposed to be spearheading the effort.

The question really becomes is Anthony Joshua willing to potentially give up money on PPV to help save Eddie Hearn's US TV deal?

We'll see

[Bjl12]

As i have said for the fans the preference would be for the fight to take place on DAZN in the US, because of the cheaper price compared to what it would cost on PPV. However the Boxing Buisness to fan’s needs....

The question is who will get the fight and what Buisness model will come out on top, DAZN’s flat fee or the SHO PPV Route.

Will Haymon realistically allow Wilder to go over to DAZN for the biggest fight a PBC Fighter is involved in and vice versa with Hearn.

Well neither DAZN nor Showtime are a "flat fee". Both services are designed to be subscription-based. Showtime does offer the PPV without subscription and DAZN does allow customers to purchase 1-month and cancel.

There are actually people in the US (including this very forum like the aforementioned CUCKboi Manlikefemi) who legitimately would rather pay Showtime PPV price of $75-100 instead of $20. You get a month's worth of content with DAZN in attention to it only being $20 while you just get the single event with Showtime's model.

It's stunning the lengths people go to when they find a man they like and want to impress them. This Manlikefemi would probably start using female hormones and sex change operations if that meant they could meet Deyonce.

In other news, rain is wet

[Bjl12]

What does any of this have to do with Joshua though? DAZN didn't sign Anthony Joshua; they signed Matchroom Sport to deliver a certain number of shows.

DAZN signed Andrade, Farmer, Jesse Vargas, Canelo, Golovkin, and even Daniel Jacobs to formal deals, among others; Joshua and his management have yet to see a deal from DAZN worth signing, and Eddie Hearn is supposed to be spearheading the effort.

The question really becomes is Anthony Joshua willing to potentially give up money on PPV to help save Eddie Hearn's US TV deal?

We'll see

It's tough to say if AJ would be losing money by not going the PPV route. The same can be said for Canelo.

People WRONGLY compare Canelo or AJ to Floyd Mayweather. There has never been a business model like Floyd's that has been so successful.

Taking guaranteed money, like Canelo has, is probably a good investment. Why? Because Canelo isn't Floyd. Neither is AJ. These guys aren't marketing machines like Floyd. They don't have a nemesis/rival. Canelo kind of did, but GGG was too old so the rivalry couldn't really brew. And both fights did very ordinary PPV numbers despite being excellent fights:

- 1.3million 1st fight
- 1.1 million 2nd fight

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/9/2...pv-buys-boxing

There is literally NOBODY on Canelo's radar to warrant another 1 million PPV buys. And as much as Floyd would deny it..his PPV success had a great part to do with Manny/Roach/Arum calling him out, calling him chicken, their lawsuit, infamous ESPN interviews, post-fight interviews, etc. It was literally from a poorly written Michael Bay script. But it's never been done before in boxing so there was a TON of excitement.

AJ does have potentially lucrative fights with Wilder and Fury, but people forget those guys are ONLY well known on this forum. Nobody outside of boxing fans know Wilder or Fury - they're too inactive and just don't bring any personality to their media perception.

They don't have celebrities challenging them to reading contests or famous musicians accompanything them during ring walks pre-fight or rappers making diss songs about them or WWE making matches for them or dancing with the stars fame on national television...no boxer does.

Canelo is the closest thing to Floyd and even with an abbreviated ARCH NEMESIS in GGG where there was actually some legit media support - catchweight, ducking, forfeiting belts, controversy/robbery, clenbuterol suspension, picking judges, picking gloves, etc. - still only 1 million buys.

Taking guaranteed money like Canelo did - for AJ or any current fighter - is safe money and probably more money in the long run honestly

[Kezzer]

Wilder can say what he wants about 50/50 but everyone really knows that is a duck tactic, he has had many examples, too many. Wilder fans don’t seem to see the obvious but let me share a few examples of how hypocritical he is.


He used to tell people not to care about his purse. Now unless he knows AJ’s purse he won’t fight?

He tells people Klitschko was old against AJ. Having been retired a further 2-3 years he’s now made enquires to see if he will fight as a comeback.

He criticised AJ for turning down an offer of 50 million without a contract and 24 hours to sign. He is subsquently offered 100-120 million from dazn with full detail alongside it but turns it down.

#ducksquad

[Scipio2009]

It's tough to say if AJ would be losing money by not going the PPV route. The same can be said for Canelo.

People WRONGLY compare Canelo or AJ to Floyd Mayweather. There has never been a business model like Floyd's that has been so successful.

Taking guaranteed money, like Canelo has, is probably a good investment. Why? Because Canelo isn't Floyd. Neither is AJ. These guys aren't marketing machines like Floyd. They don't have a nemesis/rival. Canelo kind of did, but GGG was too old so the rivalry couldn't really brew. And both fights did very ordinary PPV numbers despite being excellent fights:

- 1.3million 1st fight
- 1.1 million 2nd fight

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/9/2...pv-buys-boxing

There is literally NOBODY on Canelo's radar to warrant another 1 million PPV buys. And as much as Floyd would deny it..his PPV success had a great part to do with Manny/Roach/Arum calling him out, calling him chicken, their lawsuit, infamous ESPN interviews, post-fight interviews, etc. It was literally from a poorly written Michael Bay script. But it's never been done before in boxing so there was a TON of excitement.

AJ does have potentially lucrative fights with Wilder and Fury, but people forget those guys are ONLY well known on this forum. Nobody outside of boxing fans know Wilder or Fury - they're too inactive and just don't bring any personality to their media perception.

They don't have celebrities challenging them to reading contests or famous musicians accompanything them during ring walks pre-fight or rappers making diss songs about them or WWE making matches for them or dancing with the stars fame on national television...no boxer does.

Canelo is the closest thing to Floyd and even with an abbreviated ARCH NEMESIS in GGG where there was actually some legit media support - catchweight, ducking, forfeiting belts, controversy/robbery, clenbuterol suspension, picking judges, picking gloves, etc. - still only 1 million buys.

Taking guaranteed money like Canelo did - for AJ or any current fighter - is safe money and probably more money in the long run honestly

Mike Tyson didn't have a nemesis. Heck, Floyd didn't really have a nemesis; 50 Cent made the point, dropping the "Money Mayweather" persona in the midst of a near Great Depression event (while keeping all the good that he did as quiet as possible) made Floyd a legitimate boxing villain. Line up the names, and the money was there for folks to want to see him get beat or root for him.

Canelo not being conversational in English definitely hurts him, but Canelo was still building a rock-solid portfolio for the PPV audience to mark the calendar for his fights in May and September.

The Fielding nonsense wouldn't have done all that well on PPV (the big guy vs little guy arc could've been good for 600k+ PPV buys imo), but Alvarez-Jacobs and Alvarez-Golovkin 3 would've likely both done over a million buys. Versus Andrade to again seal the belts likely does 700k-800k (a personality "Boo Boo" is not), but then you potentially have Canelo-Zurdo to deliver another 800k+ event (if either was conversational in English, it'd likely do a million).

And then you have Jermall Charlo, probably the most charismatic of the possible opponents, a good fight, and a pretty easy hero/villain (or anti-hero) marketer for the fight in English.

And then, if he's feeling froggish (170lbs with a month to go to the fights has me doubting), there are fights at 168lbs that could be event fights (namely Alvarez vs David Benevidez at this point, or maybe he drags Kovalev down to 168).

Not every fight gets made and yes there are risks, but $350m for 10 fights is likely about the price needed to forego the PPV market; if it was $300m over 10 fights, you likely don't see Canelo give up PPV.

Anthony Joshua beats Deontay Wilder and he's the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world; he still needs to handle Fury at some point, but the public won't push it and the ESPN tie-up likely doesn't help make that all that great an option.

For two fights or three fights a year, the world will pause to watch him fight, and that's money hand over fist.

Anthony Joshua has the chance to be a billion dollar fighter if he plays his run right as undisputed champion; I don't ever foresee a day where DAZN puts up that kind of money for him to build their app.

[Bjl12]

Mike Tyson didn't have a nemesis. Heck, Floyd didn't really have a nemesis; 50 Cent made the point, dropping the "Money Mayweather" persona in the midst of a near Great Depression event (while keeping all the good that he did as quiet as possible) made Floyd a legitimate boxing villain. Line up the names, and the money was there for folks to want to see him get beat or root for him.

Canelo not being conversational in English definitely hurts him, but Canelo was still building a rock-solid portfolio for the PPV audience to mark the calendar for his fights in May and September.

The Fielding nonsense wouldn't have done all that well on PPV (the big guy vs little guy arc could've been good for 600k+ PPV buys imo), but Alvarez-Jacobs and Alvarez-Golovkin 3 would've likely both done over a million buys. Versus Andrade to again seal the belts likely does 700k-800k (a personality "Boo Boo" is not), but then you potentially have Canelo-Zurdo to deliver another 800k+ event (if either was conversational in English, it'd likely do a million).

And then you have Jermall Charlo, probably the most charismatic of the possible opponents, a good fight, and a pretty easy hero/villain (or anti-hero) marketer for the fight in English.

And then, if he's feeling froggish (170lbs with a month to go to the fights has me doubting), there are fights at 168lbs that could be event fights (namely Alvarez vs David Benevidez at this point, or maybe he drags Kovalev down to 168).

Not every fight gets made and yes there are risks, but $350m for 10 fights is likely about the price needed to forego the PPV market; if it was $300m over 10 fights, you likely don't see Canelo give up PPV.

Anthony Joshua beats Deontay Wilder and he's the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world; he still needs to handle Fury at some point, but the public won't push it and the ESPN tie-up likely doesn't help make that all that great an option.

For two fights or three fights a year, the world will pause to watch him fight, and that's money hand over fist.

Anthony Joshua has the chance to be a billion dollar fighter if he plays his run right as undisputed champion; I don't ever foresee a day where DAZN puts up that kind of money for him to build their app.

This is all wrong. Fielding would've never done 600K PPV lol and Canelo is my favorite fighter. Maybe 300k PPV

Jermall Charlo has 0 following. He's never been in a PPV before. He has no clout surrounding his name. He's never been in the conversation with Floyd, Manny, Cotto, Canelo, GGG, Jacobs, JCC Jr., etc.

Nobody knows Charlo. And now he's fighting stepping up from his last cherry pick...to fight another cherry. Nobody knows Charlo.

Canelo honestly has no options for a legitimate nemesis story at the moment. He dethroned Gennady and all his potential competitors are standing around waiting to get picked/chosen...avoiding each other all the while.

If Hurd can unify at 154 he could be a good fight at 160...needs more media push, but that will come with time and additional matchups.

If Spence grows balls he can challenge Canelo in 1 years time (since he cant fight Crawford), but Al Haymon would NEVER let that happen.

If Callum Smith goes on a tear he could call out Canelo too, but he's got enough competition to keep him busy at 168 for awhile.

The Kovalev fight wont happen because Canelo wont be ready to move up that far anytime soon and Kovalev's window is closing

A great fight - honestly - would be a Andre Ward return to 168. That's a good fight IF Dre came back and had a tune up at 168. Big IF

After Jacobs Canelo has a lot of trouble finding legitimate opponents...Andrade, Charlo, Dervenchenko, and BJS are all green. They have very few big fights, little following (meaning they bring small money to the table), and would be a deep underdog in a fight.

A.J. has a small chance because he's HW (the global glamour division) and he can pummel Deyonce and Fury (although Fury is probably a decision win). Still needs more quality opponents

[Ray*]

I'm sure ESPN and Showtime can share a fight I'm not so sure DAZN can share a fight

But Wilder and AJ are not signed with a network as far as I know

Why would DAZN not want to share a fight? They are the new ones in the market and it would be in their best interest to. And if they are sharing a fight most sensible people would rather go with them because they are cheaper.

Wilder and AJ might not be signed exclusively to those network but you would probably have to kill them to fight on another network, we have just seen that with Wilder turning down 20m dollars to fight Breazeale for what 5m max from showtime... They even had to keep his monies quiet and refer to it as loyalty, from what have seen from Team Joshua they would go where the money is, they did that with showtime and when showtime couldn’t afford him anymore they switch to DAZN.