Did Team Ward and HBO setup Chad Dawson on par to John David Jackson ?

[HanzGruber]

You do realize that Scully was Dawson's trainer for that fight right? Anything that happened, he would have first hand knowledge of it. Why are you arguing with him? You sound foolish.

Seriously guys still arguing with someone that has first hand knowledge and not some rando fan boy. Can't help some people

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

There is a big difference from telling everyone the weight is no problem and/or no Edison Miranda didn't just KO Chad in sparing to promoting the fight as the next Leonard/Hearns
l[/url]

So...I shouldnt try and hype the fight up and draw interest from people using a certain angle? Im not really following you. You dont think i should have done what exactly? What is the issue in your mind?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I say it's foolish for you to question fighters (especially Eurasians) with thousands of posts but get upset because I question their trainers (and I've seen a multitude that make Scully look like a total angel), especially when they contradict their fighters "quotes".

The situation is this...in the ring after the Hopkins fight Chad said he would fight him at 168. I privately asked both him AND his strength guy about it and they both said it was no problem (and the strength guy explained to me why it wouldnt be)...then FIVE WEEKS into camp i questioned the strength guy on it and, again, he assured me all was on schedule, 168 was gonna be NO PROBLEM. These are the facts of the case, my man.

[maracho]

To be honest, I havent talked to Dawson since the day after the Ward fight...I dont think he ever "blamed me" for anything so to speak...I think and have always gotten from it that he didnt like that I didnt want to go down with the ship AFTER I had warned them exactly how it was going to go... It was a PHYSICAL thing, no way to disagree with that. Deciding to make 168 was the first mistake. Deciding to do so in the manner he did was number 2.

You were right in telling him but I feel your going public with it was adding insult to injury and taking sides.

So...I shouldnt try and hype the fight up and draw interest from people using a certain angle? Im not really following you. You dont think i should have done what exactly? What is the issue in your mind?

I say you held out hope he would pull it off but:

If you hyped the fight knowing he was going to get beat down, it could be considered as financially deceptive, physically dangerous and against the Ali Act, etc. Dawson says he was set up by HBO. He was never the same after that fight. Manny Pacquiao and Freddy Roach got in hot water for less

Manny Pacquaio’s next opponent may be the Nevada authorities after the superstar boxer failed to disclose his shoulder injury on a pre-fight questionnaire.

Regulatory officials told True.Ink that Pacquiao may face criminal perjury charges — sanctions or fines, at least — for incorrectly filling out the state medical paperwork in the run-up to his megabout loss to Floyd Mayweather Jr. in Las Vegas.

“It’s something we’re looking at, and an issue we’ll be discussing with the Attorney General,” Francisco Aguilar, chairman of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, told the website.

http://nypost.com/2015/05/05/pacquia...oulder-injury/

NAH, Not at all. I was the ONLY one in the whole camp who spoke up way in advance and said that it was INSANE and stupid, the manner in which we were making the weight. I told his manager AND his strength coach in detail what was happening and why it was wrong. They didnt listen but then AFTER the fight they wanted me to "win and lose as a team"....NONSENSE...no way was I co-signing what went down. When you focus only on your work with your strength coach (THEY ARE NOT NEEDED IN THIS GAME, Im telling you) but then after the fight everyone wants to win and lose as a team, well, NAH, thats not how it works. We werent a team, not for that fight. That was a business move gone wrong...everyone wanted the fight at 168 except for the one guy who had previous experience with losing weight to fight.

So why did you decide to stay?

The situation is this...in the ring after the Hopkins fight Chad said he would fight him at 168. I privately asked both him AND his strength guy about it and they both said it was no problem (and the strength guy explained to me why it wouldnt be)...then FIVE WEEKS into camp i questioned the strength guy on it and, again, he assured me all was on schedule, 168 was gonna be NO PROBLEM. These are the facts of the case, my man.

Are you saying that you were just taking their word for it and why are you ignoring my last post to you and responding to a post I addressed to someone else?

Here it is again:

When Dawson was asked if he'd go to 168 to fight Ward, he said:

"Right now, you know, I'd fight anybody, 168, 175. You know? I'm not saying I prefer to come out of my comfort zone, which is 175, but I could make 168."
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing...184031903.html

Dawson said “We wanted to do a catchweight at 170, but they threw it out the window. They said ‘no.’ We can’t make the fight unless it’s 168 pounds. The weight don’t bother me; the fight in Ward’s backyard don’t bother me.”
http://www.************.com/2012/08/...ght-with-ward/

"We did throw a catchweight option out there. We asked for 170 and his people said no. They wouldn't budge," Dawson stated. "What he said isn't true and he insisted that the fight take place in Oakland. We wanted the fight so we gave him everything he wanted. I'm a true champion and I'm willing to do what it takes to make the fight."
http://www.socialunderground.com/for...ad.php?tid=838

When Dawson claimed an HBO set up to make Ward the new TBE at Dawson's expence, you seem to go out of your way to blame Dawson. And now you still refuse to give your thoughts on HBO's Ward kovalev fiascos
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing...184031903.html

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

You were right in telling him but I feel your going public with it was adding insult to injury and taking sides.

I say you held out hope he would pull it off but:

If you hyped the fight knowing he was going to get beat down, it could be considered as financially deceptive, physically dangerous and against the Ali Act, etc. Dawson says he was set up by HBO. He was never the same after that fight. Manny Pacquiao and Freddy Roach got in hot water for less

So why did you decide to stay?

Are you saying that you were just taking their word for it and why are you ignoring my last post to you and responding to a post I addressed to someone else?
l[/url]

Here's the thing. You are always going to hold out hope that things come together but you cant go public with your doubts. Youd be fired for that and rightfully so. Trainers and fighters are ALWAYS going to say all is OK.

And why did I stay? Because its simple. I know that a trainer leaving a fighters camp and doing so because he feels the guy isnt ready, that would be DEVASTATING TO A FIGHTER. I couldnt do that to a fighter before a fight...a fighters mind can be in its most fragile state in many ways right before a fight...if I left and those were my reasons for doing so he could have been a mental wreck and I wasnt going to do that to him.

After the fight, though, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE Im going to sit there and let his strength/conditioning coach go on record as saying that the weight had nothing to do with it. NOT when I told all of them (not Chad) 4 weeks before the fight that it was being done wrong and they shot my observation down...BULLSPIT...no way, no how am I letting them paint an image like it was something other than the weight for his performance...the guy was trying to divert attention away from the weight being an issue as a way to deflect any blame from himself. I told him 4 weeks before the fight it was going to happen AND that his screw up was going to reflect on me and not on him. Thats EXACTLY what I told him.

Look, if I was giving him bad advice in camp I would have no choice but to own up to it but there is no way, no how I was co-signing any of that. This clown actually had the nerve to say after the fight in an interview, "Well, you know, we win and lose as a team." NONSENSE. Not when Im here a month out telling you not to have him run six days a week, not to have him holding his weight right down to the last week (right up until less than 24 before the fight!). "Winning and losing as a team" is not realistic when I wasnt part of any of those decisions. All trust was put into this guy who had never been through it in his life and didnt know what it was like to experience that weight loss. I knew it all too well. I wasnt going to leave Chad high and dry like that but after all was said and done I wasnt going to sit there and pretend what happened didnt happen, either.

Once the fight is over, Chad was still going to be Chad and still have access to opportunities...my future, though, depended on me making sure people knew that I had NOTHING to do with that craziness.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

When Dawson claimed an HBO set up to make Ward the new TBE at Dawson's expence, you seem to go out of your way to blame Dawson. And now you still refuse to give your thoughts on HB's Ward kovalev fiascos
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing...184031903.html

Youve got to keep this real. Chad claiming that was shows that everything I said after the fight in our little back and forth was 1000 PCT ACCURATE. Set up???? Stop it. Chad called him out on NATIONAL TELEVISION. He REQUESTED the fight and stated publicly and privately that making weight was no issue. He was going to make it and be strong, etc etc. HOW is that a set up? Nah, that's on par with some sort of deficiency issues going on. As boxers after a loss we are ALWAYS going to look for reasons, sometimes excuses, why we lost. But obviously not all of them should be publicly expressed...and that clearly was one of them.

[maracho]

Here's the thing. You are always going to hold out hope that things come together but you cant go public with your doubts. Youd be fired for that and rightfully so. Trainers and fighters are ALWAYS going to say all is OK.

And why did I stay? Because its simple. I know that a trainer leaving a fighters camp and doing so because he feels the guy isnt ready, that would be DEVASTATING TO A FIGHTER. I couldnt do that to a fighter before a fight...a fighters mind can be in its most fragile state in many ways right before a fight...if I left and those were my reasons for doing so he could have been a mental wreck and I wasnt going to do that to him.

After the fight, though, there is NO WAY POSSIBLE Im going to sit there and let his strength/conditioning coach go on record as saying that the weight had nothing to do with it. NOT when I told all of them (not Chad) 4 weeks before the fight that it was being done wrong and they shot my observation down...BULLSPIT...no way, no how am I letting them paint an image like it was something other than the weight for his performance...the guy was trying to divert attention away from the weight being an issue as a way to deflect any blame from himself. I told him 4 weeks before the fight it was going to happen AND that his screw up was going to reflect on me and not on him. Thats EXACTLY what I told him.

Look, if I was giving him bad advice in camp I would have no choice but to own up to it but there is no way, no how I was co-signing any of that. This clown actually had the nerve to say after the fight in an interview, "Well, you know, we win and lose as a team." NONSENSE. Not when Im here a month out telling you not to have him run six days a week, not to have him holding his weight right down to the last week (right up until less than 24 before the fight!). "Winning and losing as a team" is not realistic when I wasnt part of any of those decisions. All trust was put into this guy who had never been through it in his life and didnt know what it was like to experience that weight loss. I knew it all too well. I wasnt going to leave Chad high and dry like that but after all was said and done I wasnt going to sit there and pretend what happened didnt happen, either.

Once the fight is over, Chad was still going to be Chad and still have access to opportunities...my future, though, depended on me making sure people knew that I had NOTHING to do with that craziness.

Youve got to keep this real. Chad claiming that was shows that everything I said after the fight in our little back and forth was 1000 PCT ACCURATE. Set up???? Stop it. Chad called him out on NATIONAL TELEVISION. He REQUESTED the fight and stated publicly and privately that making weight was no issue. He was going to make it and be strong, etc etc. HOW is that a set up? Nah, that's on par with some sort of deficiency issues going on. As boxers after a loss we are ALWAYS going to look for reasons, sometimes excuses, why we lost. But obviously not all of them should be publicly expressed...and that clearly was one of them.

I wouldnt have been quiet about the weight either but shouting to the world as all Chad's fault seems not telling the whole story. Im thinking Chad was hyping the fight as par of the HBO course like when Max Kellerman publicly asked GGG if he was willing to go up to 168 to fight the great SOG Ward at his very first fight at that weight. Of course Max always sets this up this right after 12 rounds of mental fatigue knowing that the fighters are at their most vulnerable to peer persuasion, fan pleasing, risk taking (believe me, the powers that be got boxing with gambling down to a tee), etc... The whole time though these fighters are also thinking they're the A-side and surely the fight should develop into catch-weight so they stick with the HBO script until boo, they are trapped.

In Chad's case there is also the mysterious strength coach to continue the brainwashing and apparently trying his best to keep you at bay as well. Im curious what changed about this coach in your opinion because you had once said: "He has a strength coach, Axel Murillo, who does his job beautifully, so I feel that we have all the bases covered again." http://www.fighthype.com/news/article12165.html

Later things change drastically and you say: "Chad is in big trouble, career-wise," Scully said Monday. "TV is boxing today. TV dictates titles. People don't want to see Chad on TV. Mark my words. People will use this as an excuse, a reason to shut him out."..."We got to Las Vegas [to train] July 7. It was 111 degrees. Chad weighed 182 pounds, good, 14 pounds to lose in nine weeks. Fast forward to Aug 13. Chad weighed 184 and he had been running six days a week. When I saw that, I called [Murillo] and said, 'We should cancel this fight.' He says, 'We're fine. I got it.' Then he got mad and told me to mind my own business." ""Fast forward to Sept 6 at 6:30, the night before the weigh-in. Chad weighed 175. He had less than 24 hours to lose 7 pounds after training nine weeks to lose 7. That strength coach ruined him. I don't know his methods. I don't know what he was feeding him or what supplements he was giving him. But I guarantee you this. If I was training Chad alone, we would have made 168 pounds easy."He went into that fight with nothing. I told Chad that Axel Murillo should be put in prison for what he did to you. Axel still trained him for this fight and I'm out....Scully, however, insisted it's not the full story that Dawson fired him without telling him....When I trained Chad when he was young and then again for the Hopkins fights, it was a pleasure," Scully said. "We clicked. He listened. Training for the Ward fight, I could give you 100 incidents that just wore me out....The most outlandish, Scully said, was after he had simply posted a picture of Dawson in the gym on Facebook. Later, he could hear Chad ordering his brother to tell Scully to delete the photo.....I was in my bedroom and they were in the living room, 10 feet away, and Chad couldn't even yell over to me?" Scully said. "That told me he went Hollywood. He was out of control. I tried to have him do certain things we did for the Hopkins fight. He'd say, 'I'm not doing that.' Or 'I'm not sparring today." http://articles.courant.com/2013-06-...y-andre-ward/2

The nefariousness of these strength coaches is getting more and more common every year, especially now that drug testing orgs are becoming sanctioning bodies. Look how Alex Ariza jumps ship and throws his former clients under the bus for Floyd. Look how Showtime and malignaggi spied on McGreger directly for Floyd. Look at John David jackson. Could this Murillo guy be another HBO motivator mole and all toward making SOG part of the new TBE Money Team? For example, look how Oscar and Showtime set up Marquez to come way up in weight and then still also let Floyd come in heavy. These set-ups happen all the time and Ive personally seen even worse to both me and my son but in our case even our trainers were very actively involved.

[maracho]

Ice Man John Scully: "Chad is in big trouble, career-wise, ..TV is boxing today. TV dictates titles. People don't want to see Chad on TV. Mark my words. People will use this as an excuse, a reason to shut him out." ....He [Chad] went into that fight with nothing. I told Chad that Axel Murillo should be put in prison for what he did"

You didn’t mention HBO but you were basically acknowledging the fact that HBO wanted to set Chad up for failure.

But lets now move on to the spooky slick Virgil Hunter who’s first plan of attack was against none other than Axel Murillo. http://www.thesweetscience.com/featu...-does-he-feelq We seen the same thing when team Mayweather kept telling McGregor that Dana White was part of a setup. We later seen that Al Haymon and Showtime sent their pundit Pauli Malignaggi to spar spy on the MMA champ.

Likewise, in Ward vs Dawson, Virgil wanted the synergy of fans, judges, pundits, refs and even team Kovalev to judge Sergey as the racist bully. At the same time Virgil Hunter wasn’t satisfied in conquering by merely dividing Kovalev from John David Jackson. Virgil and Andre conspired to suck John David Jackson in with multiple phone calls about big money, comparing John’s boxing slickness to SOG Wards, instilling in John being a civil rights warrior and in the end seeing Kovalev as just a big bully burden.

What Im wondering is if phone calls were made to Axel Murillo too

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

In Chad's case there is also the mysterious strength coach to continue the brainwashing and apparently trying his best to keep you at bay as well. Im curious what changed about this coach in your opinion because you had once said: "He has a strength coach, Axel Murillo, who does his job beautifully, so I feel that we have all the bases covered again." http://www.fighthype.com/news/article12165.html

The thing that CHANGED is that Chad had to go way down in weight...strength coach's, most notably Mackie Shilstone, can be great helping a fighter who needs to pack on larger amounts of muscles mass in order to compete with a bigger man (Roy v Ruiz, Hops v Tarver and Spinks-Holmes...each one trained by Chad's strength coach's mentor Mackie Shilstone)...they can be great helping a guy move WAY UP in weight and maintaining speed and strength and explosiveness...but losing weight? Nah, especially not going WAY down. I mean, in all 100000 pct seriousness, I am SURE that if I was in charge of getting his weight down to 168 I would have done a better job. The manner in which it was done was brutal and I made it known to the SC. But guess what? This fool...I TEXTED him my concerns because I didnt want to talk with him in the main house where he was staying and have Chad overhear that I had concerns about his weight loss. So I texted him and we had a little discussion. Then what doe she do right after? HE TELLS CHAD WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This STUPID M.F. actually told Chad that I had concerns about his weight and, if you've ever boxed competitively before you know that was almost too much to believe that he would willingly, intentionally plant that seed in Chads mind. Once he did that, in my eyes, it was just another nail in the coffin. Thats one reason why I am VERY selective about who is around the fighter in camp...but in Chad's case I had no say, really, because his team and inner circle was well established in between the time I trained him in 2005 and 2005 and the time i returned in 2011.

[maracho]

The thing that CHANGED is that Chad had to go way down in weight...strength coach's, most notably Mackie Shilstone, can be great helping a fighter who needs to pack on larger amounts of muscles mass in order to compete with a bigger man (Roy v Ruiz, Hops v Tarver and Spinks-Holmes...each one trained by Chad's strength coach's mentor Mackie Shilstone)...they can be great helping a guy move WAY UP in weight and maintaining speed and strength and explosiveness...but losing weight? Nah, especially not going WAY down. I mean, in all 100000 pct seriousness, I am SURE that if I was in charge of getting his weight down to 168 I would have done a better job. The manner in which it was done was brutal and I made it known to the SC. But guess what? This fool...I TEXTED him my concerns because I didnt want to talk with him in the main house where he was staying and have Chad overhear that I had concerns about his weight loss. So I texted him and we had a little discussion. Then what doe she do right after? HE TELLS CHAD WHAT I SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This STUPID M.F. actually told Chad that I had concerns about his weight and, if you've ever boxed competitively before you know that was almost too much to believe that he would willingly, intentionally plant that seed in Chads mind. Once he did that, in my eyes, it was just another nail in the coffin. Thats one reason why I am VERY selective about who is around the fighter in camp...but in Chad's case I had no say, really, because his team and inner circle was well established in between the time I trained him in 2005 and 2005 and the time i returned in 2011.

Yeah I'm feeling the picture and that also would have been just how Virgil likes it