How can you rate guys like dempsey and sullivan since they never foguht black opponants.
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Rating old heavyweights?
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Originally posted by ben41193 View PostWell think about it. Dempsey may have been the best white heaavyweight but what about all the black challengers out there. Maybe they could have beaten him.
Think about it: if you either of the Klit's refused to fight the top black challengers, how hightly would you rate them?
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Why is it that you think that Wills (and other very good blacks of that era such as Sam McVey and Sam Langford) are so superior to the whites of the same era? So unless every boxer fought blacks, they can't fight??? Unless they beat a black man, the black man is automatically superior?? You have no respect for Jack Dempsey???????
Here is a link to Harry Wills' fight record....http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=17615.
Hope this helps you see that Wills was not some undefeated Tyson-like monster who never lost.
Please, don't underestimate the greatness of Dempsey. Even blacks give him his due place in history.
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Originally posted by Terry A View PostWhy is it that you think that Wills (and other very good blacks of that era such as Sam McVey and Sam Langford) are so superior to the whites of the same era? So unless every boxer fought blacks, they can't fight??? Unless they beat a black man, the black man is automatically superior?? You have no respect for Jack Dempsey???????
Please, don't underestimate the greatness of Dempsey. Even blacks give him his due place in history.
Of course Dempsey has his place in history. But it would have been a great deal higher if he didn't fail to fight some of the greatest fighters of his day - whatevever the reason. The reason doesn't matter to me. Demspey didn't prove himself better than many cracking fighters from his era (and one in Wills who may well have beaten him) so this makes it harder to rate him above other great fighters since then.
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Originally posted by McGrain View PostOf course Dempsey has his place in history. But it would have been a great deal higher if he didn't fail to fight some of the greatest fighters of his day - whatevever the reason. The reason doesn't matter to me. Demspey didn't prove himself better than many cracking fighters from his era (and one in Wills who may well have beaten him) so this makes it harder to rate him above other great fighters since then.
Do I think Harry Wills was a very good fighter? Absolutley.
Do I think he could have beaten Dempsey? No way.
Would Dempsey's all time standing be even better had he beaten Wills? Yes.
Will we ever no for sure? Unfortunately no...
PS- Glad to have you posting with us McGrain!
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It's funny that you mentioned Klitschko, because that proves my point exactly. All the top heavies today are from the eastern bloc, so if Dempsey's record is tainted by the color line, so is Ali's, Foreman's etc. by the Iron Curtain. But none of their records are tainted.
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