my top 35 heavyweights of all time

[SuzieQ49]

here are my top 35 heavyweights of all time


1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Larry Holmes
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Jack Johnson
9. Joe Frazier
10. Mike Tyson
11. Sam Langford
12. Lennox Lewis
13. Ezzard Charles
14. James Jeffries
15. Jersey Joe Walcott
16. Evander Holyfield
17. Max Schmeling
18. Ken Norton
19. Floyd Patterson
20. Gene Tunney
21. Riddick Bowe
22. Jack Sharkey
23. Harry Wills
24. Peter Jackson
25. Max Baer
26. Jerry Quarry
27. Joe Jeanette
28. James Corbett
29. Elmer Ray
30. George Godfrey
31. Jimmy Young
32. Tim Witherspoon
33. Sam Mcvey
34. Archie Moore
35. Cleveland Williams

[Heckler]

1)Muhammad Ali
2)Joe Louis
3)George Foreman
4)Jack Johnson
5)Larry Holmes
6)Jack Dempsey
7)Joe Frazier
8)Rocky Marciano
9)Sonny Liston
10)Mike Tyson
11)Lennox Lewis
12)Jim Jeffries
13)Floyd Patterson
14)Ken Norton
15)Ezzard Charles
16)Jersey Joe walcott
17)Riddick Bowe
18)Evander Holyfield
19)Max Schmeling
20)Gene Tunney

[Kid Achilles]

I like the list because you consider all eras and pay respect to the forgotten great, The Black Prince, but I think Jeffries should be a few ranks higher. Remember that Langford openly avoided the man and Langford was a man who would fight ANYONE. That says so much to me about how feared Jeffries was in his day.

His record is also incredible and makes up for in quality what it lacks in quantity. Taking on Choynski in only his 7th fight? What durability and force of will he had to last against such dangerous contenders as green as he was. I can think of few champions (in any weight class, not just heavy) who faced such opposition that early in their careers.

Imagine Jeffries under modern training with a full amateur career and time to develop his defensive skills and combination punching. A fantasy for sure, but still. He would be a monster.

[Yogi]

The arguments are there both for & against a higher ranking for Jeffries, but like Achilles, I'd have him a few spots higher on my own personal list in around the 8th position.

But ****, overall that's one of the very best all-time & historical rankings that I've seen for the division and I can certainly applaud Brockton for it...I also like the inclusion of guys who aren't often named in these things, like Jackson (I'd actually even have him higher than that myself...top 20 for sure to me), Godfrey, 'Violent' Ray, etc.

[Yogi]

P.S. Heckler has a good list, as well.

[butterfly1964]

i'll take me a while to make up a top 35 list. there alot of factors to consider.

[Kid Achilles]

I agree Butterfly. I takes real consideration to make a list like SuzieQ's and Heckler's, as well as a broad historical perspective. I haven't put the time into thinking beyond 15 or so myself.

[Yogi]

I've complied these extended Heavyweight rankings in the past and one of the easiest ways to go about it, I thought, was to first off rate an era of about 20 years of Heavyweight history and keep going from there...

Eg. Rate the division from 1885-1905, 1905-1925, 1925-1945, etc., etc. up to 1985-now, and only include a fighter once, which would be his best era.

You eliminate a bunch of split hairs when you go about it that way, in my opinion.

[SuzieQ49]

Remember that Langford openly avoided the man and Langford was a man who would fight ANYONE. That says so much to me about how feared Jeffries was in his day.

Jeffries is a hard spot to rank, and i have no problem with him being ranked a little higher. TO ADDRESS THIS POINT, when langford refused to fight him it was in 1905 or 1906. LANGFORD WAS ONLY 155LB DURING THAT TIME. surely a 155lb man wouldnt want to challenge a chizzled 220lb champion?? langford did not reach his heavyweight prime till about 1909 or 1910 when he started to weigh around 180lb.

His record is also incredible and makes up for in quality what it lacks in quantity. Taking on Choynski in only his 7th fight? What durability and force of will he had to last against such dangerous contenders as green as he was. I can think of few champions (in any weight class, not just heavy) who faced such opposition that early in their careers.

Imagine Jeffries under modern training with a full amateur career and time to develop his defensive skills and combination punching. A fantasy for sure, but still. He would be a monster.

i agree, and i have considered this. knocking out a hank griffin in your 3rd pro fight is incredible.








sam langford's win resume at heavyweight matches up there with anyones in history outside of ali. its phenominal. in his heavyweight prime which consisted of MANY fights, he lost just a couple times.

IT WAS LANGFORD, NOT JACK JOHNSON, WHO DOMINATED THE ERA. WHY? LANGFORD BEAT THE BEST CHALLENGERS OUT THERE ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. johnson ducked the best challengers out there. IN ESSENCE, it was sam langford who cleaned up the heavyweight division during johnson's reign. NOT JACK JOHNSON.

[Kid Achilles]

A problem I have is comparing fighters from eras where twenty or more rounds were used for championship fights. Would Ali really be able to dance for 20 rounds against a relentless Jim Jeffries while both men were wearing smaller gloves (which makes body blows especially more damaging as one can hit to the body with small gloves or no gloves with little fear of breaking the hands)? Remember that Ali was not a bodypuncher at all and his style relied on him moving around the ring at an intense pace that might not work well within the expanded time constraints of a 20 round or longer fight.

I can imagine examples where an old timer takes on a modern fighter under his own rules, but loses to the more modern fighter under his rules. What then? Who's to say that Jeffries should have to agree to a fifteen round fight any more than Ali should have to agree a fight under conditions that favor Jeffries? Why should Mike Tyson have to go fifteen rounds with Ali when he's used to going 12?

This problem only arises of course when one takes into account head to head matchups which I assume both SuzieQ's and Heckler's do.

The more I look at it the more muddled it gets. Anyway, I'm off to sleep.