12 rounds hurt Hagler the most. But it was not a gamebreaker. I think Hagler's mistake was in completely underestimating the emotional potency of Ray's return and the air of nostalgia it instilled within the crowd. He didn't realise he was battling against arguably the biggest home-team advantage in modern times (look at the likes of Gene Hackman cheering like a schoolkid for Leonard) until it was far too late and went down fighting an unbeatable myth rather than a very beatable man.
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Of the things SRL was able to negotiate for against Hagler...
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Originally posted by Mugwump View Post12 rounds hurt Hagler the most. But it was not a gamebreaker. I think Hagler's mistake was in completely underestimating the emotional potency of Ray's return and the air of nostalgia it instilled within the crowd. He didn't realise he was battling against arguably the biggest home-team advantage in modern times (look at the likes of Gene Hackman cheering like a schoolkid for Leonard) until it was far too late and went down fighting an unbeatable myth rather than a very beatable man.
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Originally posted by joseph5620 View PostHagler clearly losing the first four rounds and foolishly fighting right handed early hurt Hagler far more than Gene Hackman or the crowd. The 12 rounds and large ring helped Leonard more but Leonard made Hagler look old and slow. There is no getting around that.
Yes, Hagler did look slow. However, any careful observer could see that Leonard was also a pale shadow of his former self. For sure he was beating Marvin to the punch. But he could only sustain his attack in short bursts. Hagler needed to be in Leonard's face every time he took his foot off the pedal.
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Originally posted by bojangles1987 View PostDefinitely the 12 rounds. Hagler fought a fifteen round fight, and it cost him.
The biggest mistake Hagler made was letting Leonard charm him. Don't get me started on this fight though, I'll believe to the day I die that Hagler was screwed. Leonard did better than expected and won the fight just because of that.
GULLY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKAI2...e_gdata_playerLast edited by TAC602; 10-26-2011, 05:27 AM.
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Hagler was beat by Leonard. . . No robbery here. . . Hagler didn't have to deal with anything different than other fighters have had too. . . Leonard looked amazing in this fight. . . so much hand speed. . . AMAZING wheels on him too. . . that's boxing IMO. . .
PIECED Hagler up. . . Lol then Hagler acted like a baby and cried about it. . . "waaaaaa i got beat but i think i deserved to win!" WAAAAAAAAAA!
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Originally posted by uglypug View PostHagler was beat by Leonard. . . No robbery here. . . Hagler didn't have to deal with anything different than other fighters have had too. . . Leonard looked amazing in this fight. . . so much hand speed. . . AMAZING wheels on him too. . . that's boxing IMO. . .
PIECED Hagler up. . . Lol then Hagler acted like a baby and cried about it. . . "waaaaaa i got beat but i think i deserved to win!" WAAAAAAAAAA!
Benitez (38-0-1) - TKO15
Green (33-2-0) - KO4
Duran (72-1-0) - TKO8 (officially)
Kalule (36-0-0) - TKO9
Hearns (32-0-0) - TKO14
What an F-in' Resume.
Clearly, nobody was ever going to KO Marvelous, owner of arguably the greatest chin in boxing history.Last edited by TAC602; 11-19-2011, 02:18 PM.
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The Judges man...The ****in judges!
Of what u list though i think the distance, even though im of the understanding its what both guys wanted - 15 would have suited Marvin better what with SRL's inactivity
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I think a rematch, if it were to happen would have clearly gone to Marvin. He would of used every inch of his stamina to take the fight to ray and fight him on the inside with a good body attack which would have done ray in IMO. but se la vie
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Originally posted by joseph5620 View PostHagler clearly losing the first four rounds and foolishly fighting right handed early hurt Hagler far more than Gene Hackman or the crowd. The 12 rounds and large ring helped Leonard more but Leonard made Hagler look old and slow. There is no getting around that.
You took the words out of my mouth, I voted that the 12 round distance was the biggest factor, but boxing was going that way anyway. The amount of 15 round fights after 1987 was much reduced. Come to think of it, no title fights even jump to mind.....was there any 15 round fights post 1987? I'm stuck to think of one!!! So no real excuse there for Hagler fans........
And yes, Hagler looked old and slow. Although the fight was closer on second viewing, Hagler was made to look foolish at times with wild missing, he was slow to capitalise on Leonard's mistakes, he didn't apply enough pressure, his handspeed was quite reduced too. Come to think of it, did Leonard actually miss with any of his combinations? Hagler was quite a goal keeper that night. If Leonard didn't beat him he might have been exposed shortly after regardless. I think that the Hagler that fought Leonard would have had a tough time with Hearns, Barkley, Benn or even Eubank a few years later.
Adding to all the above he gave away the early rounds trying to make a point of fighting orthodox, what was he and the Petronelli's thinking? Come to think of it, the Petronelli's cornerwork was dire that night. Even Gil Clancy remarked on the telecast that they were talking to Hagler like it was 'an IBM meeting' between rounds, no hint to their fighter that the scoring might have been a little close!!!
Was prime Hagler better than Leonard at middleweight? Yes
Would Hagler have won a rematch? Possibly
What was the real reason Hagler lost? His age! He wasn't prime any longer.
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