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Originally posted by Alx.
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I stopped at Tyson. In what way is Tyson a greater HW than Lennox? -
Tyson? His resume isn't that good at all. Talent wise he's top 10, resume he'd be lucky to get in top 100.Originally posted by Alx. View PostComment
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I think it's pretty arguable I have them around the same place, 10-13.Originally posted by Dirk Diggler UK View Post
Anyway, take Tyson out his list and he still has 9 HW's who are arguably greater. (Taking out Ezzard Charles who isn't arguably greater)
Add Liston and Willis and that's 11.Comment
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Lennox is at least a top ten ATG HW. Lennox was great because he has one of the most underrated ring IQ's ever in the HW division. Defeated all opponents he faced. Beat one of today's reigning heavyweight titlist (who is an ATG). Dude is legit and treated like ***** because you know he reps Britain.Comment
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I'm sick of all these "what if's", it's ridiculous. What if Ali had never been forced to take 3 1/2 years off from boxing, which effectively killed his prime??? He would have shattered Joe Louis' defense record, never would have lost to Joe Frazier, may never have lost. But it's a what if, oh well. Even with the layoff, Ali was hands down the greatest HW of all-time. 4 ATG HW's in Liston, Patterson, Frazier, and Foreman, when they all still had it. You can't say the same for Lennox's wins over Tyson and Holyfield.
Lennox H2H was easily one of the Top 5 HW's ever, in my eyes. Career, era, resume, he reminds me a lot of Rocky Marciano. Marciano came in when Louis, Charles, and Walcott were on their way out, and before Floyd Patterson really became a Top HW fighter. He got Louis and Walcott when they were way past it, and he fought Ezzard Charles while he wasn't completely past it, but pretty close.
Lennox came in when Tyson and Holyfield were on their way out, and before the Klitschko's really started dominating. It should be noted that it was Wlad and Vitali that pretty much refused to fight Lennox from 2000 until 2003 though. But, Lennox got his win over Tyson when he was way past it and when Holyfield wasn't completely past it, but pretty close. And of course he has the Vitali win in a fight he was loosing, but the cut stoppage happened.
Had Riddick Bowe not avoided Lennnox Lewis, and had they fought, the winner would have EASILY been elevated to Top 5 ATG HW's. Bowe already had his win over another prime ATG HW, because he beat Holyfield 2 of 3. Had he beaten Lennox Lewis as well, everyone would think Bowe was possibly one of the greatest HW of all-time. And had Lennox beaten Riddick Bowe, it would have been his best win ever no doubt.
Leaving out how Bowe avoided Lewis, and going strictly on resume and best wins, this is my list of ATG HW's. Lewis and Marciano drop a bit from where the names on their resumes are, because some of their biggest wins were against guys that were past it (Marciano over Charles, Walcott, and Louis. Lennox over Tyson and Holyfield).
Muhammad Ali- 4 ATG Hw's in Liston, Patterson, Frazier, and Foreman. Deepest resume of all probably.
Jack Johnson- 3 ATG HW's in Langford, Jeffries, and Fitzsimmons.
Joe Louis- 1 ATG HW in Walcott, but deep resume full of tons of really goo fighters. Most dominant ever.
George Foreman- 1 ATG HW in Frazier, other good wins like Lyle-Norton-Moorer.
Joe Frazier- 1 ATG HW in Ali, arguably the best HW of all-time.
Rocky Marciano- 3 ATG HW's, but all past their primes. Another ATG in Moore though.
Ezzard Charles- 2 ATG HW's in Walcott and Louis, though Louis was past his prime.
Riddick Bowe- 1 ATG HW in Holyfield, other good names as well.
Evander Holyfield- 2 ATG HW's in Bowe and Tyson, other good names as well. Lost the trilogy to Bowe though.
Lennox Lewis- 3 ATG HW's, though Tyson and Holyfield were past their primes, and Vitali win was a cut stoppage, in a fight he was loosing.
Sonny Liston- 1 ATG HW in Patterson, other good wins as well.
Joe Walcott- 1 ATG HW in Charles, split with him. Lost his fights with Marciano and Louis though.
Larry Holmes- 1 ATG HW in Ali, but Ali was way way way past it. No one really counts that win. Dominant but against ehhhh fighters most of the time.
Mike Tyson- 1 ATG HW in Holmes, but Holmes was way way past it. Dominant but against ehhh fighters, but had good wins.
Wladimir Klitschko- Dominant against ehhhh fighters most of the time, but his wins over Haye and Byrd put him above his brother to me.
Jack Dempsey- Dominant but against ehhhh fighters most of the time. Lost to former LHW Tunney. Really dominant but his best win was Sharkey. Overrated on most HW lists I think.
Vitali Klitschko- Dominant but against ehhhh fighters. Had injuries and cut stoppages in his biggest fights with Lewis and Byrd. Good wins but dominant against ehhh fighters most of the time.
Floyd Patterson- Good wins and dominant at his reign until he met Sonny Liston. Lost his biggest fights with Liston and Ali though.
H2H it's a whole different story. But, based on career, resume, and best wins, I'd probably go with that order.Last edited by 4Corners; 03-17-2012, 05:36 PM.Comment
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It'll be the first good guy he fought in his prime.
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