HOF/ATG Poll: Pac ahead of Floyd for ATG

[Wiley Hyena]

Pffff. You forgot to mention that Floyd would beat the brakes off of a PRIME JCC. You are making assertions that no one believes except you. As our colleague posted above, Floyd is favored in that fight because he is better in the eyes of every expert. People just became enamored with the PERCEIVED "danger" aspect of a Pacquiao fight. But in the last 2 yrs, that notion, along with Pacquiao's skills started deteriorating. I honestly AGREE that Pacquiao's resume is impressive and I love his activity, both in punch output and in his twice a yr outings. Pacquiao IS more exciting than Floyd. But much of that has to do with the fact that he is more hitable and creates more drama because he is in more bloody fights. Floyd is a masterful boxer that hits and doesn't get hit often. Exciting doesn't make you GREAT. HOFer Gatti is the prime example. Guys like Katsidis are plenty exciting. But to be great you have to have ELITE skills to back up an awesome resume. As far as skills go... Floyd is unmatched right now. And is unblemished. And it drives you insane.

"You forgot to mention that Floyd would beat the brakes off of a PRIME JCC." This statement, my friend, is a symptom of your disease.

The only reason prime Chavez didn't fight Floyd and destroy him in the cradle is because Floyd ducked him by intentionally being born too late.

You cannot argue with the numbers. Floyd's obsession with the goose-egg has become a detriment to his career. As the polling has shown, Floyd would have been better off going for the glory. See post 149, above.

[KingOfBox]

"Racially insecure" is your excuse?? LOL

The lesson from post 149 is this: Defending the goose-egg is not doing Floyd any good at all. Not if we're talking about true greatness. He could pick and piddle his way to 50-0...it wouldn't matter. He would be better remembered by the glory he accumulates for himself. And, he isn't going to do that.

Hence...Pacman's popularity.

Pfffff lesson? This lame thinks he is teaching. I'm the one teaching here son. Pacquiao is an A fighter.... Mayweather is A+. According to statistics from compubox as written on espn ( http://m.espn.go.com/extra/boxing/story?storyId=7780088). Floyd has the best plus/minus ratio of all time. Plus/minus Floyd is +30... Pac is +4.7. The only number he was edged in was conn percentage by Louis and Lewis. .Learn THAT, "intelligent". Look at SRL, Marvelous, Duran, Hearns, Ali's numbers in total comparison. Do your hw in order not to get embarrassed publicly like your idol

[KingOfBox]

"You forgot to mention that Floyd would beat the brakes off of a PRIME JCC." This statement, my friend, is a symptom of your disease.

The only reason prime Chavez didn't fight Floyd and destroy him in the cradle is because Floyd ducked him by intentionally being born too late.

You cannot argue with the numbers. Floyd's obsession with the goose-egg has become a detriment to his career. As the polling has shown, Floyd would have been better off going for the glory. See post 149, above.

@ this herb thinking his "poll" is some kind of official status. Bahahahaha! This poll is like a sh!% sandwich without the bread. It's just sh@&!!!! Haha

[Wiley Hyena]

Pfffff lesson? This lame thinks he is teaching. I'm the one teaching here son. Pacquiao is an A fighter.... Mayweather is A+. According to statistics from compubox as written on espn ( http://m.espn.go.com/extra/boxing/story?storyId=7780088). Floyd has the best plus/minus ratio of all time. Plus/minus Floyd is +30... Pac is +4.7. The only number he was edged in was conn percentage by Louis and Lewis. .Learn THAT, "intelligent". Look at SRL, Marvelous, Duran, Hearns, Ali's numbers in total comparison. Do your hw in order not to get embarrassed publicly like your idol

No. I'm afraid you're not capable of teaching anybody because you are incapable of learning. Let's talk the numbers of greatness. 87-0 and 37 title fights is a good place to start. Floyd will be lucky to get half of that.

So the issue: Is defending the undefeated goose-egg worth it? The polling showing Pac is a higher regarded ATG than Floyd would seem to indicate that it is not.

This is not a matter of fanbased loyalty. This is statistics. If Floyd's goal is to make as much money as possible without retiring with a brain injury...then he is accomplishing that goal. If his goal is greatness in the sport...then he is failing beyond any doubt.

[Bolo Punch]

You said that Pacquao's resume looks better than Mayweather's, and I asked you how. Nowehre in this post do I see an explanation for why Pacquiao's resume is better than Mayweather's. I didn't disrespect Pacquiao or his resume, you dodged my question then responded to a strawman.

By the way, Pacquiao's career didn't start in 2008 but nobody was calling him an atg before then and you know that.

My answer was given in the form of an example from another era.

If you really want a long, drawn out response that you could see yourself if you just looked at each other's resume then okay, here goes...

Pacquiao came from nothing. Floyd was an Olympic athlete. Pacquiao had to work his way up from the bottom, whereas Floyd turned pro with a rich backing in the form of US fans of boxing and people high up in the sport willing to give him a hand to the top because really they wanted a piece of him due to his successful amateur career. This clearly means that Floyd had it easier right off the bat.

Pacquiao had to go to Thailand to fight a Thai for his first title shot. Floyd fought for his Super Featherweight title in his city of residence.

Pacquiao took the fight with Ledwaba on two weeks notice.

Pre-2008, Pacquiao had big wins against Morales x2 and Barrera x2. Mayweather, though, did also have wins that were just as big in that same time frame in the form of Corrales, Judah, De La Hoya and Hatton.

Again, I'll state that Pacquiao's career didn't start in '08. I know he wasn't an ATG before then, but there's no doubting he was great. The wins since then have helped add to his legacy, rather than define it. It's better him beating world class fighters in any form than pretending to be retired, IMO anyway.

Hopefully this reply will suffice, Goldie.

[KingOfBox]

No. I'm afraid you're not capable of teaching anybody because you are incapable of learning. Let's talk the numbers of greatness. 87-0 and 37 title fights is a good place to start. Floyd will be lucky to get half of that.

So the issue: Is defending the undefeated goose-egg worth it? The polling showing Pac is a higher regarded ATG than Floyd would seem to indicate that it is not.

This is not a matter of fanbased loyalty. This is statistics. If Floyd's goal is to make as much money as possible without retiring with a brain injury...then he is accomplishing that goal. If his goal is greatness in the sport...then he is failing beyond any doubt.

Aren't you tired of getting roasted by all of us on your own post?? I just showed you proof!

COMPUBOX!!!!!!!!

You fail at life. You fail at being an undercover BIASED PacFan, fail at analysis, fail at comprehension. You think that by somehow "attacking" my general perception that Floyd is a bad SOB that you are somehow discrediting Floyd. Problem is you still have to try to discredit Floyd... Nobody has to try to discredit Manny... A little old "washed up" Mexican did that. Funny how you absolutely refuse to even MENTION MARQUEZ!!!!! BEST OF TRIED TO IMPLY MARQUEZ USED PEDS!!!!

[Goldie]

My answer was given in the form of an example from another era.

If you really want a long, drawn out response that you could see yourself if you just looked at each other's resume then okay, here goes...

Pacquiao came from nothing. Floyd was an Olympic athlete. Pacquiao had to work his way up from the bottom, whereas Floyd turned pro with a rich backing in the form of US fans of boxing and people high up in the sport willing to give him a hand to the top because really they wanted a piece of him due to his successful amateur career. This clearly means that Floyd had it easier right off the bat.

Pacquiao had to go to Thailand to fight a Thai for his first title shot. Floyd fought for his Super Featherweight title in his city of residence.

Pacquiao took the fight with Ledwaba on two weeks notice.


Pre-2008, Pacquiao had big wins against Morales x2 and Barrera x2. Mayweather, though, did also have wins that were just as big in that same time frame in the form of Corrales, Judah, De La Hoya and Hatton.

Again, I'll state that Pacquiao's career didn't start in '08. I know he wasn't an ATG before then, but there's no doubting he was great. The wins since then have helped add to his legacy, rather than define it. It's better him beating world class fighters in any form than pretending to be retired, IMO anyway.

Hopefully this reply will suffice, Goldie.

Well the argument that Pacquiao's resume is better than Mayweather's because Ali's resume is better than Marciano's is lazy and piss poor, that's why I didn't even acknowledge it.

The argument in bold is a joke, and I'm not going to acknowledge that either. Let's keep this about what each fighter has done in the ring and save the sob stories.

I don't have a problem with the part in italics, I even agree for the most part. Again, I'm not trying to discredit Pacquiao here. I'm no hater. He's a good fighter who's had a really good career. Can't take that away from him. Nothing you said proves that his resume looks better than Mayweather's though. Imo, in order for for one to feel that Pacquiao's resume is better than Mayweather's he/she must be convinced that Pacquiao's wins are so much better than Mayweather's that they outweigh his losses. I just don't see that. I respect you for responding to my question though. Salute.

[MaD RoBoT]

Explain how a fighter who has a resume with 5 losess including a few by KO is better than a fighter's resume who has zero losses and only 1 close fight? Logic seems to mean little to nothing here.

your "logic" seems to suggest that Floyd is greater than Duran...do you agree?

[MaD RoBoT]

Well the argument that Pacquiao's resume is better than Mayweather's because Ali's resume is better than Marciano's is lazy and piss poor, that's why I didn't even acknowledge it.

The argument in bold is a joke, and I'm not going to acknowledge that either. Let's keep this about what each fighter has done in the ring and save the sob stories.

I don't have a problem with the part in italics, I even agree for the most part. Again, I'm not trying to discredit Pacquiao here. I'm no hater. He's a good fighter who's had a really good career. Can't take that away from him. Nothing you said proves that his resume looks better than Mayweather's though. Imo, in order for for one to feel that Pacquiao's resume is better than Mayweather's he/she must be convinced that Pacquiao's wins are so much better than Mayweather's that they outweigh his losses. I just don't see that. I respect you for responding to my question though. Salute.

how about the only fighter who won 4 lineal belts, will it suffice?

[Wiley Hyena]

Aren't you tired of getting roasted by all of us on your own post?? I just showed you proof!

COMPUBOX!!!!!!!!

You fail at life. You fail at being an undercover BIASED PacFan, fail at analysis, fail at comprehension. You think that by somehow "attacking" my general perception that Floyd is a bad SOB that you are somehow discrediting Floyd. Problem is you still have to try to discredit Floyd... Nobody has to try to discredit Manny... A little old "washed up" Mexican did that. Funny how you absolutely refuse to even MENTION MARQUEZ!!!!! BEST OF TRIED TO IMPLY MARQUEZ USED PEDS!!!!

"You fail at life." ??? LOL Your invective betrays your insecurity. And you are insecure because you simply cannot make a dent in the argument of this thread. You cannot argue with the polling. You cannot argue with the numbers. These are facts.

If the facts were different, you would find me making a different argument..possibly one in Floyd's favor.

I have no issue with anybody saying or implying that Floyd's talent is great. I would agree with the premise that his potential was almost limitless.

But compubox numbers mean nothing when we are talking about greatness. I am absolutely sure there is one perfect fight out there, according to compubox. Or say, as I would imagine, there is a 2 second, 1rst round, one punch KO out there. Is that fighter the GOAT???

What we are talking about here is greatness in the sport. Floyd doesn't have the numbers. He'll be 75 years old at this pace, before he has the numbers. I think its a reasonable assumption that Floyd will never have the numbers.

Now...does a fighter like Holyfield need the numbers to be an all time great? Does a fighter like Foreman need the numbers to be an all time great? Does a fighter like Pacman need the numbers to be an all time great? NO NO and NO. Because they accumulate their accolades thru GLORY.

Two different routes to greatness: Numbers and Glory. Floyd has neither.
This is his problem.